CNN 2010-10-06

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Joining me live from Denver and L.A. and also in L.A., along with Mary Ann there, one of my favorite pastors¹, the Reverend Art Cribbs of the San Marino United Church of Christ. It's great to have all three of you this morning. My favorite topic. All right.We've got a lot of ...

Thank you.

OK. I just want to make sure we got phones with all of you. I know you're having some issues. You know what I want to get all of you to respond to this first question because it's the one that had us all talking and we were pretty surprised about the fact that those who scored highest were atheists and agnostics. Does that surprise you, Deepak?

No, it does not. I think it is looking harder for answers and the devout³ usually are close minded. Fervent⁴ belief is a cover up for insecurity and you see all the problems that arise from fervent believers who we call fundamentalists. I think the survey sounds like counter intuitive but it isn't. If you go deeper, it says nothing about value judgment⁵. You know, who feels closer to god? Who embodies⁶ divine attributes like love, compassion⁷, goodness, truth, equanimity⁸, peace of mind? Who despairs over death? So there's a difference between religious experience and religious knowledge.

You know, Mary Ann, the head of the American Atheist² Dave Silverman actually said that he just gave his daughter a Bible and that's how you make atheists. What do you think about the fact that agnostics and atheists actually knew more than those that claim a religion and say that they are very faithful and knowledgeable⁹ about what they believe?

You know, there's a line in A Course in Miracles that says many conspire¹⁰ with god who do not yet believe in him. I think what Deepak was saying is so important that the religious experience is what matters. And so if a person has love in their heart they are serving god whether they "believe in god or not."

So when we make the conversation about the religious experience, which is not about dogma, which is not about doctrine¹¹, which is not about my club versus¹² your club but about the way we live our lives in humility¹³ and an effort to forgive and live peacefully. I've known people who call themselves atheists, certainly people who consider themselves agnostic, which, you know, an agnostic is someone who is just open to exactly what is it.

I think that's the religious experience. And that's where the conversation is moving now. Not to all of the external issues but to the internal issues of the heart. And if an atheist is a loving person I think that's what god cares about.