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美国国家公共电台 NPR 'The Gospel According to André': Look Fabulous, And Know Your History

时间:2018-05-28 07:33:35

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AUDIE CORNISH, HOST:

Andre Leon Talley is best known for his time as a fashion editor for Vogue1 and for what he wears on his broad 6'6" frame.

ANDRE LEON TALLEY: I'm wearing a kaftan and a shirt from Marrakech - Fil d'Or - from the souks of Marrakech. And I'm wearing a vintage scarf made out of two vintage saris, and it's made by Jeanette Farrier.

CORNISH: And the colors.

TALLEY: The colors the red, burgundy, gray, light pink. And that's my signature look for the day.

CORNISH: Talley is the subject of a new documentary, "The Gospel According To Andre." It starts with his childhood in Durham, N.C., where he was raised by his grandmother who was a maid at Duke University. Talley told me the other day that his love of fashion is firmly rooted in his love for her and how she dressed to go to church every Sunday.

TALLEY: Handbags, gloves chosen carefully. My grandmother had the most beautiful wardrobe of gloves, calfskin gloves in the winter. You wore beautiful net gloves in summer. You wore beautiful cotton gloves. So all of that was very much ritualistic, and I loved it.

CORNISH: What was, I guess, the value of being able to dress in that way?

TALLEY: Well, as I said, this was Sunday dressing2 at its best. On the weekdays, we wore just normal clothes. But Sunday was given over to the best that she could afford - an elegance4 and restraint. It was nothing ever flashy. This was the way people were brought up in the South. They were inspired to put their best foot forward in church, you know? It was a wonderful, extraordinary place to grow up in the South in the segregated5 South because I think it gave people strength. I went to a segregated high school, and I worshipped those experiences.

CORNISH: How come? Why do you look at them that way? I mean, a lot of people would look back and say that's not ideal.

TALLEY: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Lifelong experiences, lifelong friendships were made at the high school. You can always go back home. And you can always go back to your roots and find these wonderful, solid, golden memories. And I think that that would not have happened had I gone to an integrated school across town, you know?

CORNISH: So you talk about being raised in a segregated community, and from there, you end up at Brown University in Rhode Island, which is not very diverse. You end up doing an apprenticeship6 with Diane Vreeland in New York at The Costume Institute at the Met. You go from one extreme to another - right? - because now you're going into very white spaces.

TALLEY: Very white spaces - extremely white spaces. But I think I was prepared for it because I was given unconditional7 love. So I could approach that space with confidence. I wanted to be in the world of Diana Vreeland's Vogue. That was the world that I loved when I was a teenager. I was always tearing the pages out of Vogue and putting them on my wall in my bedroom. So I wanted to see Naomi Sims. I wanted to meet Pat Cleveland. I wanted to meet Truman Capote. And I did. And he was a friend of Andy Warhol's. When you worked for Andy Warhol, which I did - this was my first full-paying job - everyone came to The Factory. Not only did Grace Jones come to The Factory, Arnold Schwarzenegger would come to The Factory, Diana Ross would come to The Factory, Michael Jackson would come to The Factory. It was a melting pot of cultural diversity in New York at the right time. I got to New York in 1974, and I never looked back.

CORNISH: It is such a specific time and also diversity on the runways - right? - which has kind of come and gone over the last few decades.

TALLEY: Well, it began - it was really thriving in the '70s. It's dormant8 today.

CORNISH: You're being very generous when you say dormant.

TALLEY: Dormant - I am being very generous.

CORNISH: (Laughter) Right. Fashion is not exactly holding up its end of the bargain.

TALLEY: Fashion does not hold its end of the bargain up because people do not like to talk about race. And if you bring it up, people feel very uncomfortable. I always say, well, where are the black people in this show? Who are the black editors? I could have been an editor of a fashion magazine, but, you know, the glass ceiling did not rise that far for me. They kept me sort of shuttered underneath9 the glass ceiling, so I never crashed through it. And I do resent that in a way because I could have easily been the editor of a style magazine. I would never say I can be the editor of Vogue, but I could've been the editor of a stylish10 magazine.

CORNISH: I want to talk about that a little more because you speak frankly11 about how you felt you might have been perceived at times. You speak frankly about ways that you were insulted. Here is a moment where you talk a little bit about that.

(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ANDRE")

TALLEY: They used to call me Queen Kong - a woman in Saint Laurent who used to call me Queen Kong. I was like an ape - King Kong, Queen Kong. They were saying I was a gay ape Queen Kong, and I knew this from very close friends. I never confronted her because these things I internalized and kept them bottled up.

CORNISH: Andre Leon Talley, what do you mean when you say you internalized that, and what was the price you paid for doing that?

TALLEY: This is the first time I ever spoke12 of that. The girl's name is Clara Saint. She's still alive. She was a public relations director of Saint Laurent Rive Gauche13. And I thought it was the most racist14, insensitive thing I ever heard. And then I realized that people can smile at you and backstab you at the same time, that the fashion world is not a gracious world. It has been very good to me, but it's not a world that is really open, you know? To go around making fun of me because I was black was racist, and it hurt. They don't keep me here for my looks, as Judge Judy says, they keep me here for my knowledge.

CORNISH: You know, I think the idea of you has become even bigger than who you are.

TALLEY: Thank you.

CORNISH: Like, everyone thinks that fashion editors speak like you...

TALLEY: Thank you.

CORNISH: That you bring your level of drama to things.

TALLEY: A drama and performance art to the front row.

CORNISH: But not everyone is backing it up with the knowledge. I mean, you have a French history degree (laughter).

TALLEY: Yes. I have a master's degree, and I'm telling you, the knowledge is important. You can't go forward without having knowledge of the past.

CORNISH: But what do you think of that caricature?

TALLEY: I think people see the surface of me and the performance in the front row, the armor of clothing expressing myself through individualism in clothing and my choice of clothes. But if you ever hear me talk, it's almost like - and I'm very, very pretentious15 here, pompous16 - I see myself as like an Oscar Wilde. I could go around the country and be like an Oscar Wilde on a one-man tour, show the film and get up and talk for 40 minutes, and people would learn something.

CORNISH: You talked about your own fashion, and I think in modern times, people most associate you with these flowing capes18, which...

TALLEY: Kaftans - capes and kaftans.

CORNISH: Capes and kaftans.

TALLEY: Cape17 and kaftans.

CORNISH: And they are...

TALLEY: They're often custom-made.

CORNISH: They're custom-made by the designers that you are friends with.

TALLEY: They love me. Valentino made my first beautiful kaftans.

CORNISH: But they take advantage of your stature19 and size. Like, it gives you...

TALLEY: And they appreciate it. They appreciate...

CORNISH: ...A big like - almost like a deity20 (laughter).

TALLEY: They appreciate making clothes for me.

CORNISH: Is that what you're going for?

TALLEY: No. I'm not going for deity. I'm going for individualism. I'm going for the individual.

CORNISH: I shouldn't ask that of a churchgoing man, but still.

TALLEY: No, I'm not asking - I'm asking for...

CORNISH: It seems like you're going for something very grand.

TALLEY: I'm going for the drama of who - I'm going for what makes me feel comfortable. A cape suits me, and it's an honor to wear anything that these designers make for me - Tom Ford3, Valentino, Karl Lagerfeld, Ralph Rucci. Volumes of flowing, fluid, elegant fabric21 - it suits my stature and my frame.

CORNISH: You wanted to be a fashion editor from the time you were a little boy, and you've achieved that dream. You achieved it in a time when your grandmother was alive - right? - to see you.

TALLEY: Yes, yes.

CORNISH: Was it everything you thought it was going to be?

TALLEY: Yes, everything and then some, everything and then some. I've seen the best, and I've cherished the best, and I've lived in a world that gave me something that was very inspiring.

CORNISH: Well, Andre Leon Talley, thank you so much for speaking with us.

TALLEY: Well, thank you, Audie. I really appreciate you having me. Thank you very much.

CORNISH: The documentary, "The Gospel According To Andre," is out in select theaters this weekend. It opens nationwide in June. And one more thing - we reached out to Ms. Clara Saint about the name Talley says she used for him, Queen Kong. Through a translator, she said it is a fake story. I didn't create this name. I never used it in reference to him, and I am not racist.


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点击收听单词发音收听单词发音  

1 Vogue 6hMwC     
n.时髦,时尚;adj.流行的
参考例句:
  • Flowery carpets became the vogue.花卉地毯变成了时髦货。
  • Short hair came back into vogue about ten years ago.大约十年前短发又开始流行起来了。
2 dressing 1uOzJG     
n.(食物)调料;包扎伤口的用品,敷料
参考例句:
  • Don't spend such a lot of time in dressing yourself.别花那么多时间来打扮自己。
  • The children enjoy dressing up in mother's old clothes.孩子们喜欢穿上妈妈旧时的衣服玩。
3 Ford KiIxx     
n.浅滩,水浅可涉处;v.涉水,涉过
参考例句:
  • They were guarding the bridge,so we forded the river.他们驻守在那座桥上,所以我们只能涉水过河。
  • If you decide to ford a stream,be extremely careful.如果已决定要涉过小溪,必须极度小心。
4 elegance QjPzj     
n.优雅;优美,雅致;精致,巧妙
参考例句:
  • The furnishings in the room imparted an air of elegance.这个房间的家具带给这房间一种优雅的气氛。
  • John has been known for his sartorial elegance.约翰因为衣着讲究而出名。
5 segregated 457728413c6a2574f2f2e154d5b8d101     
分开的; 被隔离的
参考例句:
  • a culture in which women are segregated from men 妇女受到隔离歧视的文化
  • The doctor segregated the child sick with scarlet fever. 大夫把患猩红热的孩子隔离起来。
6 apprenticeship 4NLyv     
n.学徒身份;学徒期
参考例句:
  • She was in the second year of her apprenticeship as a carpenter. 她当木工学徒已是第二年了。
  • He served his apprenticeship with Bob. 他跟鲍勃当学徒。
7 unconditional plcwS     
adj.无条件的,无限制的,绝对的
参考例句:
  • The victorious army demanded unconditional surrender.胜方要求敌人无条件投降。
  • My love for all my children is unconditional.我对自己所有孩子的爱都是无条件的。
8 dormant d8uyk     
adj.暂停活动的;休眠的;潜伏的
参考例句:
  • Many animals are in a dormant state during winter.在冬天许多动物都处于睡眠状态。
  • This dormant volcano suddenly fired up.这座休眠火山突然爆发了。
9 underneath VKRz2     
adj.在...下面,在...底下;adv.在下面
参考例句:
  • Working underneath the car is always a messy job.在汽车底下工作是件脏活。
  • She wore a coat with a dress underneath.她穿着一件大衣,里面套着一条连衣裙。
10 stylish 7tNwG     
adj.流行的,时髦的;漂亮的,气派的
参考例句:
  • He's a stylish dresser.他是个穿着很有格调的人。
  • What stylish women are wearing in Paris will be worn by women all over the world.巴黎女性时装往往会引导世界时装潮流。
11 frankly fsXzcf     
adv.坦白地,直率地;坦率地说
参考例句:
  • To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说,我一点也不赞成这个主意。
  • Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说,我不反对改革。
12 spoke XryyC     
n.(车轮的)辐条;轮辐;破坏某人的计划;阻挠某人的行动 v.讲,谈(speak的过去式);说;演说;从某种观点来说
参考例句:
  • They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
  • The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。
13 gauche u6Sy6     
adj.笨拙的,粗鲁的
参考例句:
  • He now seems gauche and uninteresting.他显得又笨拙又古板。
  • She was a rather gauche,provincial creature.她是个非常不善交际、偏狭守旧的人。
14 racist GSRxZ     
n.种族主义者,种族主义分子
参考例句:
  • a series of racist attacks 一连串的种族袭击行为
  • His speech presented racist ideas under the guise of nationalism. 他的讲话以民族主义为幌子宣扬种族主义思想。
15 pretentious lSrz3     
adj.自命不凡的,自负的,炫耀的
参考例句:
  • He is a talented but pretentious writer.他是一个有才华但自命不凡的作家。
  • Speaking well of yourself would only make you appear conceited and pretentious.自夸只会使你显得自负和虚伪。
16 pompous 416zv     
adj.傲慢的,自大的;夸大的;豪华的
参考例句:
  • He was somewhat pompous and had a high opinion of his own capabilities.他有点自大,自视甚高。
  • He is a good man underneath his pompous appearance. 他的外表虽傲慢,其实是个好人。
17 cape ITEy6     
n.海角,岬;披肩,短披风
参考例句:
  • I long for a trip to the Cape of Good Hope.我渴望到好望角去旅行。
  • She was wearing a cape over her dress.她在外套上披着一件披肩。
18 capes 2a2d1f6d8808b81a9484709d3db50053     
碎谷; 斗篷( cape的名词复数 ); 披肩; 海角; 岬
参考例句:
  • It was cool and they were putting on their capes. 夜里阴冷,他们都穿上了披风。
  • The pastor smiled to give son's two Capes five cents money. 牧师微笑着给了儿子二角五分钱。
19 stature ruLw8     
n.(高度)水平,(高度)境界,身高,身材
参考例句:
  • He is five feet five inches in stature.他身高5英尺5英寸。
  • The dress models are tall of stature.时装模特儿的身材都较高。
20 deity UmRzp     
n.神,神性;被奉若神明的人(或物)
参考例句:
  • Many animals were seen as the manifestation of a deity.许多动物被看作神的化身。
  • The deity was hidden in the deepest recesses of the temple.神藏在庙宇壁龛的最深处。
21 fabric 3hezG     
n.织物,织品,布;构造,结构,组织
参考例句:
  • The fabric will spot easily.这种织品很容易玷污。
  • I don't like the pattern on the fabric.我不喜欢那块布料上的图案。

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