美国国家公共电台 NPR Lenny Kravitz On Race, 'Raise Vibration' And Duetting With Aretha Franklin

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ADRIAN BARTOS, HOST:

Hey, everybody. Just to let you know, this podcast may contain some adult or possibly offensive language.

ROBERT GARCIA, HOST:

No nudity, though.

BARTOS: (Laughter) Unless you're thinking about...

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: ...Naked people.

LENNY KRAVITZ: The questions they would ask me when I was doing promo on the first album, why aren't you doing hip¹-hop? Why aren't you an angry black person? And why...

BARTOS: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: ...You know, they just didn't understand what I was doing.

BARTOS: What point do you feel like that started to dissipate?

KRAVITZ: Maybe just about now.

(SOUNDBITE OF JAMES BROWN'S "CHASE")

BARTOS: Yo, yo, yo, everyone. This is Stretch Armstrong.

GARCIA: And my name is Bobbito Garcia, aka (speaking Spanish).

BARTOS: Welcome to WHAT'S GOOD WITH STRETCH & BOBBITO, your source for untold² stories and uncovered truths from movers and shakers from around the world.

GARCIA: We're talking art, music, including rock 'n' roll today, film and sports.

BARTOS: And everything in between.

GARCIA: Now, rock out people. We have an interview with the one and only Lenny Kravitz.

BARTOS: Do we need to even say who he is? I mean...

GARCIA: Listen. My mom is in her late 70s, and she knows who Lenny Kravitz is.

BARTOS: Lenny has been a...

GARCIA: Does your mom know who Lenny...

BARTOS: Actually, my mom would not know, actually.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: I'm sorry. Shoutout to Ava.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: So Lenny Kravitz actually grew up in Bed-Stuy, not far from where you live and almost exactly where I live right now, which is crazy.

GARCIA: Trippy.

BARTOS: Lenny has been a fixture³ in music and culture at large for as long as I can remember. What an incredible career. But we dove a lot deeper. I learned a lot about this cat that I didn't know about. He's fascinating.

GARCIA: Yeah. Well, including the fact that he has rubbed elbows with about - just about every icon⁴ that is an icon that you can think of.

BARTOS: Even before he was a professional musician.

GARCIA: Well, that's because his parents were...

BARTOS: They had the hook-up.

GARCIA: They had the - (laughter). Softly said.

BARTOS: (Laughter).

GARCIA: One of the other people who he has been able to grace the stage with as an adult and a performer is the one and only Aretha Franklin, who is unfortunately, no longer with us. And note that this interview was recorded the day before Aretha passed, so we make mention of her health, but we don't make mention of her passing. So rest in peace, Aretha Franklin.

BARTOS: Rest in peace indeed.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BARTOS: Coming up next after the break is Lenny Kravitz.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BARTOS: Lenny Kravitz, welcome to the show.

GARCIA: What's good, B? We ask all of our guests, what's good, man?

KRAVITZ: I'm back in New York, man.

GARCIA: Yeah.

KRAVITZ: You know, just came back from Europe, just got here a couple days ago. And now I'm hanging out with y'all.

GARCIA: You know, I've read that you're from Brooklyn maybe. You're from Manhattan maybe. Like, what's...

KRAVITZ: I'm from Bed-Stuy. That's where I was born and raised in Bed-Stuy, Throop and Kosciuszko.

BARTOS: Oh, wait. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.

GARCIA: Wait. Time out. That's too trippy.

KRAVITZ: What?

BARTOS: I live on that block.

KRAVITZ: No, you don't.

BARTOS: Yes, I do.

KRAVITZ: Where?

BARTOS: Well, I don't want to give the address.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: Give me your - man...

BARTOS: Kosciuszko between Throop and Tompkins.

KRAVITZ: No, you don't.

BARTOS: Yes, I do.

KRAVITZ: No, you don't.

GARCIA: Yes.

BARTOS: Yes, I do. Yo.

KRAVITZ: Three - I was at 368 Throop on the corner of Throop and Kosciuszko - the house on the corner. My folks, at that time, after they got married - because my mom grew up in this house, too.

BARTOS: Oh, wow.

KRAVITZ: And so - you know, because when my grandfather came from the Bahamas, he came to New York. He worked, like, five jobs, put a down payment on his house. And then my parents were living on the Upper East Side because my dad had this little apartment on 82nd between Fifth and Madison. My mom was a secretary at NBC at Rockefeller Center. And at night, she did theater. And then my dad was a producer, a signing editor. He was a, you know, journalist over there at NBC.

So I would sleep at my grandparents'. My parents would come home from work, go to Brooklyn, have dinner with me, play with me, hang out and then put me to bed. And then my dad would go do, like - because my dad was also, like, a jazz promoter, so he would do his thing at night. My mom would go to theater at night. And I would stay at my grandparents'. Then when I turned 5, we swapped⁶ it. I moved to the Upper East Side, and then I would go to Brooklyn on the weekends. So that's how it went. I'm actually going to come to the block before I leave because I always go to the block to say what's up to people, so...

GARCIA: Are there are a lot of...

KRAVITZ: A few. It's a few left.

GARCIA: I mean, because has clearly changed.

KRAVITZ: No, no. It's changed big-time.

BARTOS: It's crazy.

KRAVITZ: I hadn't been in years. And I went back a few years ago. And I didn't even recognize the place.

GARCIA: Were there still a lot of your old...

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

GARCIA: ...Homies?

KRAVITZ: But some sold and got out, obviously, because there was a demand. And they're getting paid. And...

GARCIA: Sure.

KRAVITZ: ...They're like, we'll move. And it's a trip. Like, I mean, it's just so different from...

BARTOS: So...

KRAVITZ: ...How I grew up there.

BARTOS: And changing still rapidly. I was...

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

BARTOS: ...The concept of me living not just in Brooklyn...

KRAVITZ: Right.

BARTOS: ...But in Bed-Stuy because, you know, we're, like, hip-hop dudes.

KRAVITZ: I hear you.

BARTOS: So Bed-Stuy, I mean...

KRAVITZ: Dude, I...

BARTOS: ...Has such strong connotations.

KRAVITZ: ...I remember being on the block the first time I saw a guy with two turntables and some homemade, like, speakers, you know, made out of plywood. They'd make their own speakers...

BARTOS: Yep.

KRAVITZ: ...On the block. And I was like, what are you doing? You're, like, playing records? Like...

BARTOS: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: ...I saw that happen...

BARTOS: Yeah.

KRAVITZ: ...As a small child, man.

GARCIA: That's crazy.

KRAVITZ: Yeah. And by the way, my grandfather was the head of the TKT - Throop Kosciuszko Tompkins Association.

BARTOS: Association? Wow.

KRAVITZ: My grandfather was a legend in that neighborhood. He raised all the kids that didn't have fathers...

GARCIA: Really?

KRAVITZ: ...In the neighborhood. And he was known - everybody called him grandpa. His name was Albert Roker. Every - I mean, people would ring the bell. Is grandpa home? Like, he was the grandpa to everybody. We would all, like, load up in his car and go to the city, go bowling⁸, go to museums, go on, like, you know, field trips.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: He was that guy. Yeah.

BARTOS: Incredible.

KRAVITZ: Yeah, yeah.

GARCIA: I remember, like, you know, growing up in Manhattan...

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: ...Going to Brooklyn was, like, a big deal. It was like another world. And I'm wondering...

KRAVITZ: And vice⁹ versa, dude.

GARCIA: That's what I'm saying. I'm wondering, growing up in Brooklyn...

KRAVITZ: I had people in Brooklyn that had never been to Manhattan.

GARCIA: Right.

KRAVITZ: Never.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: Said, no, I ain't been there. It's like, you can see it. It's right there.

GARCIA: Wait. Are you saying now in your 50s?

KRAVITZ: No, no, then.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: Then. Then, bro. When I was a kid, there were kids I knew that had never been to Manhattan.

GARCIA: Right.

BARTOS: And how about music as a kid? When did you catch the bug¹⁰?

KRAVITZ: Early. Jackson 5 singles.

BARTOS: Right.

KRAVITZ: "Stop The Love You Save."

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "STOP THE LOVE YOU SAVE")

THE JACKSON 5: (Singing) Stop, you better save it. Stop. Stop. Stop. You better save it.

GARCIA: Were you buying 45s back then?

KRAVITZ: I was, on Dekalb Avenue, bro.

BARTOS: Oh, God. If we could...

(LAUGHTER)

BARTOS: ...Go back in time to that record shop.

KRAVITZ: Yeah. Yeah, so it was - Jackson 5 was the first thing that turned me on.

GARCIA: And were...

KRAVITZ: I remember that song specifically. And then my dad took me to a concert - 1971, Madison Square Garden, Jackson 5, first show.

GARCIA: And that set it off?

KRAVITZ: That did it.

BARTOS: What was your evolution as a kid? Like, what were your - what was your daily thing as a creative person?

KRAVITZ: Music, acting¹¹ because I was - you know, my mom was in theater. And she ended up on Broadway. You know, she was in the Negro Ensemble¹² Company - really amazing theater group - African-American theater group in New York City. So I was around the theater a lot. And my parents were always going to gigs, so I grew up going to concerts, hanging out in the clubs, going to jazz clubs. You know, it was that kind of thing - going to Lincoln Center.

BARTOS: Can you remember any specific, let's say, jazz concerts that really stood out to you?

KRAVITZ: Duke Ellington at the Rainbow Room. I was 5 years old. It was my birthday. And Duke Ellington and the orchestra played "Happy Birthday" to me.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: It was pretty cool. And I remember being at the soundcheck and sitting on Duke's lap while he played piano.

GARCIA: That is insane...

KRAVITZ: Not bad.

GARCIA: ...Bro.

KRAVITZ: Not bad.

BARTOS: Pretty...

KRAVITZ: Not bad.

BARTOS: ...Pretty good for 5.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

BARTOS: Where do you go from there?

KRAVITZ: Exactly.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: Then it was, like, James Brown at the Apollo...

GARCIA: Oh, my God.

KRAVITZ: ...When he had the new band with Bootsy.

GARCIA: And Clyde Stubblefield on drums.

KRAVITZ: Ridiculous.

GARCIA: You were there?

KRAVITZ: I was there at the Apollo. I was probably about 6.

BARTOS: So you were on Duke Ellington's lap.

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: He's singing "Happy Birthday." I know you had encounters with Miles Davis as a kid.

KRAVITZ: Absolutely.

BARTOS: Who were some of these other illustrious people that you were bumping...

KRAVITZ: Ella Fitzgerald. Sarah Vaughan.

GARCIA: Wait. Time out.

KRAVITZ: Lionel Hampton. What?

BARTOS: (Laughter).

GARCIA: Time out. What?

KRAVITZ: What? What? What?

GARCIA: As in you would perform with them?

BARTOS: No. No. No, just as a kid.

KRAVITZ: No, hanging out with them.

GARCIA: Oh, OK.

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

BARTOS: Hanging.

KRAVITZ: Maya Angelou. Nina Simone. My parents were in that...

BARTOS: Yeah.

KRAVITZ: ...In that group, you know.

BARTOS: Yeah. Now, did any of these people ever have conversations with you as a kid that went, you know, beyond the superficial?

KRAVITZ: The first guy to really talk to me straight, and actually talked to my parents on my behalf, was Taj Mahal. I think my father was complaining that I wasn't spending enough time with my school work and I was playing the guitar too much.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: And I was probably about 12. And Taj told my dad, just leave the boy alone. Just leave him alone. He knows what he's doing. Leave him alone. He was, like, the first professional musician to tell me like, yo, stay focused, told my dad to lay off me a little bit, which didn't work. But - and then Miles, like, later, like - I never talked with Miles about my music until "Let Love Rule," actually, because at the end of my "Let Love Rule" tour, we ended up on a plane together. And he saw me. And he said (imitating Miles Davis), Lenny...

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: ...And called over. And I went and sat by him. And he told me that he heard the record, and he was so proud of me and really liked the record. And then I invited him to come play on "Mama Said" album to play a solo, but that was the last time I saw him. And he died shortly after that.

GARCIA: Now, Cicely Tyson...

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

GARCIA: ...Was married to Miles Davis for a bit.

KRAVITZ: That was the connection because my mother and Cicely were like sisters.

GARCIA: And she was your godmother.

KRAVITZ: Still is.

GARCIA: I...

KRAVITZ: Still is.

GARCIA: Right, I'm sorry.

KRAVITZ: Yeah, yeah.

GARCIA: She still is. Does she impart any jewels to you?

KRAVITZ: She's a - man, she's...

GARCIA: She's probably like a...

KRAVITZ: She's...

GARCIA: ...Handbook of jewels (laughter).

KRAVITZ: ...She's an alien. She's on, like, another level. She's otherworldly. Like, I don't know what to say about her. She's strong, beautiful, talented, smart, knows so much about life and health. I mean, she extended Miles' life by many years by changing his life and getting him - I mean, like, she was the one in - back in the '60s into all the organic and the juicing and this before it was even cute.

GARCIA: Right. Right.

KRAVITZ: People were just like, what are you doing?

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: You know...

GARCIA: I'm not surprised. I mean, she's 93 now. Her skin is amazing.

KRAVITZ: I'm not allowed to talk about that.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: She's - I think - I think - I think she's - she looks like she's about 45. So...

BARTOS: He doesn't want to get that phone call.

(LAUGHTER)

BARTOS: Lenny.

KRAVITZ: Yeah, she looks - she looks really - you know, she's...

GARCIA: Bless up. Bless up.

KRAVITZ: There's no time - there's no time with Cicely. She's limitless, you know.

BARTOS: It's a sad week for music lovers...

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

BARTOS: ...With the - you know, perhaps the greatest singer of all time...

KRAVITZ: Yes.

BARTOS: ...Aretha Franklin, is in - is in poor health. And - but I know you've shared moments with her.

KRAVITZ: The first time I ever saw her was actually that night at The Jackson 5 concert in '71 at the Garden. She...

GARCIA: She was on stage as well?

KRAVITZ: No, she was sitting near us. And I remember her walking in, and all the flashbulbs started going. People were like bugging¹³ out. And she had on, like, this fur thing, and a fur hat. And it was just...

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: ...Like, walked in like the - you know, the queen that she is.

GARCIA: Sure.

KRAVITZ: Aretha Franklin records are really big on my list as an influence, huge. The recordings¹⁴, the songs, obviously, her singing and her piano playing. If she never opened her mouth, she would be in my top three piano players. I love the way she plays piano. Did you see that footage when she played at the Kennedy Center...

BARTOS: Yes.

KRAVITZ: ...A couple of years ago? She - becuase Carole King was getting inducted into the Kennedy Center Honors. And Aretha came out, and played "Natural Woman" and played the piano and sang it. I was - I hadn't seen her play and sing together in such a long time. Came out with her purse. Put her purse down.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: You know, I ain't - I ain't leaving my purse back there. I don't know who's back there.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: But she and I got to - I got to sing a duet with Ms. Franklin at Madison Square Garden for this Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame thing. We remained friendly. But, I mean, Aretha Franklin, bro, that's heavy. She's such a major part of all of our lives and the greatest singer. Absolutely. Absolutely.

BARTOS: So what was that like standing¹⁵ next to her and singing...

KRAVITZ: Ah, it was...

BARTOS: ...In Madison Square Garden?

KRAVITZ: It was - it was ridiculous. It was, like, stupid. And rehearsals¹⁶ were really fun. That was the most fun, was the rehearsing with her. And Ms. Franklin is very funny and always telling jokes and pulling gags. And she's just fun. She's, like, you know, your auntie, you know. But it was an honor to be able to spend some time with her, you know.

BARTOS: I know it's probably an impossible question, but you got a favorite...

KRAVITZ: Aretha?

BARTOS: ...Aretha song?

KRAVITZ: A favorite...

BARTOS: (Singing) Daydreaming¹⁷, and I'm thinking of you.

KRAVITZ: That's a really good one. If I had to pick one, like, one...

GARCIA: (Singing) Rocksteady, baby...

KRAVITZ: ...I'd have to pick "Respect" if it had to be one. And by the way, I listened to "Respect" this morning. The drum sound is banging. It's bigger and fatter than you think it is. If you listen to it, it's (vocalizing) bah, that snare¹⁸ drum is - it's like it's John Bonham back there playing that drum set. But then I have favorites like - one of my late - later favorites and a song that I play a lot is "Angel." (Singing) Got to find me an angel.

You know that one?

GARCIA: Not - it's...

BARTOS: We got our singing.

KRAVITZ: Baby...

GARCIA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

KRAVITZ: ...Baby...

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: ..."Angel"...

GARCIA: Uh oh.

KRAVITZ: ..."Angel." Hold on. It's one of my favorite tracks. Her sister wrote it.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ANGEL")

ARETHA FRANKLIN: (Singing) Got to find me an angel to fly away with me. Got to find me an angel, oh, and set me free.

KRAVITZ: My mom used to play that when I was a kid.

GARCIA: I've never heard that record.

KRAVITZ: Oh, wow. It's...

GARCIA: Have you, Stretch?

BARTOS: I have not.

KRAVITZ: I turned y'all on to something?

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: Damn. Y'all got all the vinyl on the planet.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

BARTOS: The thing about vinyl is there's always more.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: But it - but it's a later - but it's a - but it's a - it's a - it's a later record. It's not an obvious one. The name of the album, actually, is - wait. Here's the album cover - "Hey Now Hey," 1973. But my mom used to play it a lot. It's just - but it's a beautiful song about, you know, somebody who's just lonely and looking for their partner and looking for that angel, you know. And I play it a lot. It's a beautiful song.

GARCIA: You were born in the '60s, and I'm - you know, we're not too far apart. I'm born in '66.

KRAVITZ: OK.

GARCIA: And, you know, I remember the sort of the air of New York at that point, you know, the civil rights movement...

KRAVITZ: Absolutely.

GARCIA: ...The beginnings of the Black Power movement...

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: ...You know, being too young to really grasp, you know, what that was about...

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: ...The language of it...

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: ...But certainly, like, getting traces of it and feeling something - like, just being curious about it. And I'm wondering - like, in your experiences - because you're in spaces that are high-art, but you're also in spaces that are, like, you know, the hood⁷ as well...

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: ...Simultaneously¹⁹.

KRAVITZ: Absolutely.

GARCIA: And yet, you're being infused with both of these essences in a way that I'm wondering, you know...

KRAVITZ: I didn't understand the whole race thing until I was probably in first grade. Like - OK, growing up in Brooklyn, our neighborhood was predominantly black and Puerto Rican. And everybody got up - everybody was cool. My parents grew up being artists of all kinds. The house was always mixed. There was every race, everybody, every kind of person. And everybody was cool. My dad's white. My mom's black. I don't think anything of it. My parents took me to school. And everybody's parents - you know, it's the first day of school, so everybody's parents are walking the kids to school. And everybody else's parents matched...

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: ...Except mine, right? And I remember this kid ran - walked up to us in the hallway, and he goes, your dad's white. And he pointed²⁰ his finger like that. And it was, like - I didn't understand. It was - he made a big statement. He pointed. It was, like, a thing. It was loud. And that's the first time that I understood something was going on.

And then I talked to my mother about it. And she explained, you know, you're this, you're that. You should be proud of both sides of your heritage. One thing that she told me that was really interesting - and this is 6 years old. I didn't understand it until many, many years later. She said, even though you're half this, half that, society is only going to see you as black. That was a very interesting thing to tell a 6-year-old. And then years later, I understood what she was talking about it. Yeah. But in our circle and in our life, it was beautiful.

GARCIA: Sure. Sure.

KRAVITZ: But my parents, even in - OK. So my parents got married in '63, right? So I'm born '64. I remember them telling me stories, you know? Even walking in New York City, which was, you know, the North and liberal compared to the South - and that, you know, people - some people would spit at the feet of my parents, seeing them together. My dad once took my mom to a hotel. And the guy told my father, no prostitutes allowed.

GARCIA: Oh, my God.

KRAVITZ: You know, it was obviously an issue, you know, to a lot of people.

BARTOS: But back in Brooklyn, it wasn't.

KRAVITZ: Well, Brooklyn was just - I had Jewish grandparents - Russian Jews that were in Sheepshead Bay. And then I had my African-American and Caribbean grandparents in Bed-Stuy. But within our - within the neighborhood, everybody was cool. Everybody looked out for each other. There wasn't any kind of beef going on, you know? It was cool.

GARCIA: You know, I'm curious about - you moved to LA.

KRAVITZ: Yeah, in - I was 11. So it was, like, '75.

GARCIA: And so LA has, you know, skateboard scene. They got...

KRAVITZ: It was a complete bugout for me at that time because I'm 11. I'm a New York kid. I'm on the subway. I'm on the bus. I'm independent...

BARTOS: Yeah.

KRAVITZ: ...You know? For - because growing up in New York at that time, like, as kids, we were in the street.

BARTOS: That's right.

KRAVITZ: I mean, I left that house in the morning. I didn't come home till...

GARCIA: Right.

KRAVITZ: ...The evening. You know, it was that way.

GARCIA: And no satellite parents.

KRAVITZ: No. So we get to LA. And we didn't have an apartment yet because my mom was, like - she wasn't sure that this show, "The Jeffersons," was going to last. She was like...

BARTOS: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: She's like - because she went out there to do a pilot, right? And she said, you know, there's this show - because Norman Lear had seen her on Broadway. And he said, there's going to be this show that I'm going to spin off from "All In The Family." So come out and audition²¹. She went out to LA. She auditioned²². She got the role. But Norman - what was funny - this story - because Norman Lear said, now listen. You got the part. I want you to play this woman. But what I didn't tell you was the husband - the guy that's going to be your husband on the show, he's white. And I don't know if you're - are you comfortable with that?

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: Because you're going to have to, like, you know, kiss him and hug him. And, you know, it's your husband. So my mom reached in her wallet pulled out a picture of my dad and said, that's my husband.

GARCIA: Bong.

KRAVITZ: He's like, you got the part.

GARCIA: (Laughter) That's crazy.

KRAVITZ: So we went out to LA. And she thought maybe that - you know, maybe it'll last a season. Who knows? So we lived with my godmother in Santa Monica. So this is '75. I remember the first day waking up after we got there in the morning. I look out the window. There's nobody, no people, just cars. Nobody's walking. Where's everybody? Quickly started learning about all this skateboard and surf culture. I started skateboarding for the first time, listening to a lot of rock 'n' roll music because in New York I was listening - I was like WBLS. I wasn't that hip to Hendrix and Zeppelin and The Who and Cream and, you know, all this stuff.

But all the kids I was hanging out with in LA and Santa Monica, their parents were hippies - a lot of weed and a lot of rock records and skateboards and the beach. And it was a whole new lifestyle. I would come back to New York. Summers, I get to come home with my grandmother. And then it was hip-hop. And I was like, what's this? Like, I remember showing up one summer, and my boy played me the - (rapping) the bridge is over, the bridge is over. And I was like, what is this?

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: And he was, like, break dancing. And I was, like, well, I missed all that. I had my skateboard. Nobody had a skateboard. Nobody was skateboarding. So it this the back-and-forth²³ thing. And then I go back to LA with Boogie Down Productions and all this and that. And then they'd be like, what is this? Like...

BARTOS: I know growing up in New York City, I was really patriotic²⁴ - that pride in being a New Yorker. So I'm just wondering if, like, the day you found out you're moving to LA...

KRAVITZ: Oh, it was like - I showed up in LA. And I was like, yeah, I'm from New York. Yo. I don't play that, you know?

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: And they'd make fun of me because I had an accent.

BARTOS: Yeah.

KRAVITZ: They'd come to me - say - they'd show me, like, a piece of fruit. They'd take a piece of fruit, right? Say that. What is that? Orange - they're like (laughter). Because to them, it was an orange. What's this? What do you call this? What's this? Hot dog.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: What's this? Water, you know.

GARCIA: Water (laughter).

KRAVITZ: They would make - they'd make fun of me, you know? And then somehow my accent just got kind of neutral, you know?

BARTOS: Your mother - she's from the Bahamas.

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

BARTOS: And I think you have a sense of having roots in the Bahamas.

KRAVITZ: That's, like, my heart, the Bahamas.

BARTOS: Right.

KRAVITZ: I live between there and Paris. But that's my heart - the Bahamas. Yeah.

BARTOS: So what does living there mean to you?

KRAVITZ: It's - I live in a small town with about 500 people. We all know each other. We all look out for each other. It's really basic. And I - it's - I love it. It's my favorite place to be because I'm just a local. They don't care about what I do or what my life is over here once I leave the island. They just - I'm a local. That's it. It's a place where I can really be myself and just chill. And I have my studio there. I make - I make my music there.

And it enables me to stay there for long periods of time. You know, when I'm making an album, I might stay there for six, seven, eight months straight. And I really fall deep into the bush. My first spot for 15 years is an Airstream trailer. So I lived in a trailer, which is really great because it's really small. You can only put what you really, really, really need in there. So you got your couple clothes, your - whatever book thing, or this - or your - whatever stuff you got. It's - you got to keep it real lean. And it's a great way to live, you know? It's a great way to live. And then I built a little wooden - little room - you know? - a little shack²⁵.

GARCIA: I'm curious. In that type of tranquil²⁶ environment, your current work "Raise Vibration²⁷" where you're being - you're reactionary²⁸ to some of the current politics and current ongoings in the world. And in a space like that, how do you get angst, or energy or reactionary energy to sort of say I'm going to combat this with my sound, and my lyrics²⁹ and my music...

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: ...As an attempt towards some level of healing or some...

KRAVITZ: Just in my head. Like, the location doesn't have anything to do with it. The location is a beautiful place to work and a great place to stay focused, but whatever I want to do, it's inside of me. So if it's going to be mellow³⁰, or it's going to be heavy, or it's going to be funky³¹ or more rock, whatever it may be, that's just within me.

GARCIA: So one thing that I found remarkable³² when you first came out in the late '80s was that there was, you know, synth pop...

KRAVITZ: Yes.

GARCIA: ...There was hip-hop - you know? - which was heavy on the drum...

KRAVITZ: Absolutely.

GARCIA: ...But it was sampled. So your sound kind of came apart from it, but also a result of it.

KRAVITZ: Yeah. I mean, I went - I definitely went a different - I went in a different direction on purpose. I saw where everybody was going, and I wanted to make the records that I grew up on.

GARCIA: Yeah.

KRAVITZ: Stevie Wonder records, Beatles records, whatever, Al Green records, Curtis Mayfield records, whatever it may be. The technology was moving forward, and everybody's going for this '80s sound, and all the big, gated reverbs, and all the digital stuff and blah, blah. And I wanted it to sound really intimate like those records that, you know, I grew up on. "Innervisions" was a...

GARCIA: By Stevie Wonder for those who don't know.

KRAVITZ: ...Yeah - was a big example for me as far as sound goes. I want - and so I knew this engineer that was into that. So we worked together. His name was Henry Hirsch, and he had a studio over in Jersey³³ in Hoboken called Waterfront at the time. And it was like 35 bucks³⁴ an hour. We got into it. And I knew I was going away from what was happening...

GARCIA: I mean, thankfully.

KRAVITZ: ...You know?

GARCIA: It was refreshing³⁵, honestly, like, to, you know...

KRAVITZ: Everybody bugged³⁶ out. They were like, what are those effects?

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: I was like, there's no effects. That's what...

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: What's that on your - on your vocals³⁷?

BARTOS: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: It's just a microphone. There's no reverb, even, on this track, you know.

BARTOS: This was for your first album.

KRAVITZ: For "Let Love Rule," yeah.

BARTOS: So what was the music like that got you signed?

KRAVITZ: That. I made "Let Love Rule" on my own, then took it around.

BARTOS: Ah, OK.

KRAVITZ: And people didn't understand it - you know? - at all. And then, I had one meeting at Virgin³⁸ Records. I remember - I was out in LA at that time. And I was given five minutes to play some music. So I put in a cassette of "Let Love Rule." It was actually that song. I played it.

BARTOS: Really?

KRAVITZ: And I'm sitting there. You know, I've been turned down by everybody. And she said, wait just a minute. She went and got another guy. The guy was Jeff Ayeroff, who was the president of the label. And then she said, play it again. And I played it again. And he said, can you play another one? So I think it was "Be," the song "Be." And I played that. Wait just the minute. They leave us in the room. They go get a third guy, who was Jordan Harris, the partner of Jeff Ayeroff. Play those songs again. So we're playing the songs. And they're - they got paper, and they're writing, and they're passing the papers back and forth. And I'm just looking at - and...

BARTOS: This sounds bizarre.

KRAVITZ: ...At the end of the - at the end of the three - at the end of the three songs they listened to, Jeff and Jordan said, come to our office. And I said, OK, and went in the office. He goes, we want to sign you. Just like that. I was like, what? After years of trying to get signed, nobody getting it, nobody understanding it, it's not black enough, it's not white enough, it's not this enough - the things that they wrote on the paper that I got to see after it was John Lennon meets Prince.

GARCIA: Oh, get out.

BARTOS: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: That's how they - that's how they explained it.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: So - and they signed it. And they said - and they actually said, we have no idea how to market you. We don't know if you're going to sell. We don't know. We don't have a clue of how to even deal with you yet, but we believe in it. I thought it was really honest. At that time, all the A&R departments was like black A&R, pop A&R.

GARCIA: Right. Right. Right.

KRAVITZ: Very distinct. Very separated. What they did was they sent me to Europe. They're like, we don't have a clue what to do with you, take your ass⁵ to Europe.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: So they sent me to - they sent me to London. They sent me to Paris. They sent me to Amsterdam. And they sent me to Hamburg, Germany, right? So that's where I went, and that's where they started pushing me. They were more open. A little less of the boxes and the formats³⁹, a little less.

GARCIA: Well, I mean, Radio Nova in Paris.

KRAVITZ: Dude, that's my favorite station.

BARTOS: Oh, my God.

KRAVITZ: That's my favorite station on planet Earth.

BARTOS: The overnight.

GARCIA: They play...

BARTOS: The overnight.

GARCIA: ...Everything.

KRAVITZ: Dude.

BARTOS: The overnight, right?

KRAVITZ: Dude.

BARTOS: Six p.m. on?

KRAVITZ: That's on my house 24/7 when I'm home. Just - I put Nova on.

BARTOS: Yeah.

KRAVITZ: And you'll hear Fela Kuti next to Serge Gainsbourg next to...

BARTOS: Yep.

GARCIA: Yes.

KRAVITZ: ...Some, like...

BARTOS: Next to Janis Joplin.

KRAVITZ: Yeah, next to some Senegalese music, next to...

BARTOS: Next to Clipse, right, yeah.

KRAVITZ: Yeah, and then throw you some, like, hip-hop...

GARCIA: Tribe Called Quest.

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

GARCIA: Yeah, for sure, for sure.

KRAVITZ: It's so tasty, right?

GARCIA: It's yummy.

KRAVITZ: It is.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: It is. And thank God that there's one station that will still do that. But the questions they would ask me when I was doing promo on the first album - why aren't you doing hip-hop? And why aren't you this? And why aren't you a angry black person?

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: And why - you know, they just didn't understand what I was doing. But, you know, here we are.

BARTOS: At what point along your journey - working with record labels, touring, making music, interacting with the public - did that kind of sense of confusion and people trying to sort of get clarity on their own perceptions by putting you in a box did you feel like that started to dissipate?

KRAVITZ: Maybe just about now.

(LAUGHTER)

GARCIA: Thirty years later from the debut⁴⁰ of the album.

KRAVITZ: It's coming. Like they - now they're, like, OK, OK, all right, you've got it. We'll give it to you.

GARCIA: Sounds like you enjoy it now, though.

KRAVITZ: I mean, even during, like, my biggest success at the time, like, when "5" came out - that album with "Fly Away" and all those tracks - we had to really push hard and break down walls and barriers to get on radio. And we had to actually change - help change radio. It was a struggle. But then when they would hit, they wouldn't go away, you know. But then each time I'd release a new album, it was like they didn't know who I - like, you know - (knocking) - who are you?

BARTOS: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: You know, well, we just had this hit, this hit, this hit - don't matter. Start over from scratch, you know. But it was fun, you know, because I was going to do my thing and that was it. So I never conformed to what was going on on the radio. I never chased the fashion of what was happening at that time. I just made whatever came out of me. I didn't really know how to do anything else, you know.

GARCIA: Let's hear a little snippet of the single "Low" off your new LP "Raise Vibration." Michelle, can you pop that in?

(SOUNDBITE OF LENNY KRAVITZ SONG, "LOW")

KRAVITZ: (Singing) Don't lift me up to turn me down. I just want a lover. Baby, stay with me on the floor. Talk with me. Let me go. Got to keep below. Talk with me. Let me go. Got to keep below. Don't lift me up to turn me down. I just want a lover...

That was the first track that came for the album. I mean, it just unfolded by itself. This whole album was dreamt. They were dreams. I don't really ever sit down to write. Either I hear something - I'm sitting around, I just hear something. Or I'm asleep and I wake up from a dream and I'm hearing something. It was really inspired, and it just - all these things came out that were in my subconscious⁴¹, in my spirit, whatever you want to call it. When you hear the record, you'll hear it's quite a painting. It's a lot of different things going on, different styles.

BARTOS: But the - so that was the first song in the whole sort of body of work...

KRAVITZ: Yes. yes.

BARTOS: ...That ended up being this album...

KRAVITZ: Yes.

BARTOS: ..."Raise Vibration." But I read that "Low" came to after a long sort of dry spell where...

KRAVITZ: Well, it wasn't a dry spell - I know I gave that interview to Rolling Stone, and I kind of said something, and it kind of got a little misconstrued. But basically what was going on was that people around me and people that work with me were saying, you know what, you should work with a producer. And you should do this. And you should collaborate⁴² with this guy. And you should do this. And it's not that I'm against it, but the way I work is just a very organic way. And it just, like - I do my thing, and I play the instruments, and I produce it, and I write it. So I don't really need to be around other folks when I do that.

But they were saying, you know, drop your ego⁴³. It wasn't even about ego. But, you know, you should drop your ego, and you should do this, and you should do this - work with these people, work with that. You've got to be contemporary and all that - everything against everything that I've ever done or the way I've worked because I've always gone down my path. But I said, you know what, I'm going to be open, and I'm going to do it.

So I worked with some people. It still wasn't the record, the album, the statement that I was going to put out. So I just got real quiet. I don't know how many weeks it was later, I started hearing music in my sleep. This was the time that I was being offered whatever it is I was supposed to do. I was then given the direction, which is, again, the way I like to work. I want to receive whatever is mine, you know. We all have our own things that we receive. And that's when it started. And then I did "Low," and then the floodgates opened. And then the whole album just spilled out. And that was what I was supposed to do. And I knew it because it felt right. And I knew that that was who I was at that moment.

GARCIA: So I read that you're working on a autobiographical film project. And I just recently released a autobiographical documentary of my life.

KRAVITZ: Oh, I want to watch that.

GARCIA: Yeah, titled "Rock Rubber 45s."

KRAVITZ: You got it?

GARCIA: Yeah, it's available.

KRAVITZ: Great. I want to see that, yeah.

GARCIA: Yeah, we'll get it to you. Thank you.

KRAVITZ: What, your boy didn't get one? What's up?

(LAUGHTER)

GARCIA: Well, I did a autobiographical documentary about the two of us as well.

KRAVITZ: OK.

GARCIA: Yeah, I've done two. So - but interesting, you know, when you approach a autobiographical documentary, is that I had to tell my narrative⁴⁴, but I couldn't without telling the narrative of my parents.

KRAVITZ: Of course.

GARCIA: So I'm curious, in terms of your approach, how much are you going to share that maybe...

KRAVITZ: I think it'll be based on but it'll be a different character, you know. It's not going to be exact, but it'll be somebody like myself.

GARCIA: Where are you at with the project? Is it - are you, like, first draft...

KRAVITZ: The music's done. And we're about to get into it with the writer, trying to get it going so I can drop it as the next project. Yeah.

GARCIA: Oh, we look forward to that because...

KRAVITZ: Thank you.

GARCIA: ...It's just what you shared with us today. And, you know, as much research - and as much as I personally have appreciated your music over the years, I'm learning so much...

KRAVITZ: Oh, thank you.

GARCIA: ...About your paths. And I'm like - it's mind-blowing.

KRAVITZ: Thank you, man.

GARCIA: It really is.

KRAVITZ: Thank you.

GARCIA: I mean, what you've been able to experience as a human being, it's...

KRAVITZ: It's a blessing⁴⁵. I mean, all of us, right? The fact that we're sitting here. You're, you know, kids from New York that just love music...

GARCIA: Yeah.

KRAVITZ: ...And have been blessed to have a career and be able to support your life off of the thing that you just love that you would have done for free.

BARTOS: Your daughter, Zoe...

KRAVITZ: Yeah.

BARTOS: ...Who's a star in her own right at this point...

KRAVITZ: She's amazing.

BARTOS: ...She's got one foot in acting, another foot in music. What's that relationship like? And was there a conversation where she was like, Dad...

KRAVITZ: I...

BARTOS: ...This is what I want to do? And you were like...

KRAVITZ: I thought she would end up being completely out of this business - acting or music. I had no idea. And then when she was a teenager, she said she wanted to try acting. We got her an agent. And she ended up getting - her first - her very first job was in a movie with Catherine Zeta-Jones called "No Reservations" about a chef. And Zoe had one scene. And she did it. And she said, I think I like this. And then her next job was with Jodie Foster in this movie called "The Brave One," couple of scenes - really good, acting with Jodie Foster, like...

GARCIA: Top of the food chain.

KRAVITZ: And then it just kept going.

BARTOS: It gets better.

GARCIA: Yeah (laughter).

BARTOS: It gets better - Meryl Streep.

KRAVITZ: And now she's acting with Meryl Streep. Yeah. So, you know, it's all good. She's out in LA right now doing "Big Little Lies" and finishing that up, and couldn't be more proud and pleased and - just because she's doing what it is that she loves. And she works hard, and she's good at it. And it's wonderful to watch.

BARTOS: I mean, she was always - you know, she's learned so much from you just through osmosis. I'm curious if there's anything that you've learned from her.

KRAVITZ: Tons. She's way hipper⁴⁶ than I am. I learn from her all the time. I mean, in fact, one of the songs on this album I re-cut because she didn't dig the way I did it the first time, so...

GARCIA: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: She's like, no, that ain't it. It's not right. So I completely changed - the song "It's Enough." I don't know if you heard that one.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "IT'S ENOUGH")

KRAVITZ: (Singing) Forty-five caliber⁴⁷ in the face, shot him in the head because of his race.

She didn't tell me to re-cut it. She just was like, I'm not feeling it, and - like that. And then I, of course, couldn't stop thinking about it, like, damn, what is...

BARTOS: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: And then I re-cut it and understood why it wasn't right. And then I played it for her, like, way later. She didn't even know. I said, you know that song I did that you didn't like the way it - I said, I re-cut it, played it for her. She's like, oh, that's much better. She's got great ears. She's got great style. She's got great instinct. And she's the new generation, so, you know...

GARCIA: Well, I...

KRAVITZ: ...I listen.

GARCIA: Yeah. Well, I love that as a parent, you can listen because...

KRAVITZ: Oh, absolutely.

GARCIA: ...Not every older person is going to be open to critique from a young person.

KRAVITZ: Yeah. Well, you know, my granddad, the one we talked about from Bed-Stuy, he lived up into his 90s. And even up until that point, his friends were like - he had friends that were in their 20s and like, 30s - every age. Like, he liked - he especially liked to hang out with younger people. He liked to talk and philosophize, get into conversations - deep conversations about things. And he loved to hear where they were coming from and what he could learn from that.

Most of the time, an older person says, this is the way you do it. And that's the way it is. And that - I don't want to hear it, right? He would say, this is the way I did it. And this is the way it worked for me. When you come up with a better way, show me. And if they did, he'd say, that's a - that is better. He had the kids respect him the way he did things and what he did as an adult and how he learned. He was very smart but was always open to, if there's a better way, show me. I'd like to learn, you know?

GARCIA: Yeah. If only the entire world could be that...

BARTOS: Right.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: Indeed.

KRAVITZ: Right? Yeah.

GARCIA: Let's take a quick break. And we're going to come right back, just a quick breather. You can have some water. And there's something special for you.

KRAVITZ: OK, cool.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BARTOS: Oh, the drums. You know what that means. It's time for the Impression Session.

GARCIA: Here's how it works. We play you a track.

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: You react. It's as simple as that.

KRAVITZ: OK, great.

GARCIA: Stretch, you up first.

BARTOS: Ba-boom (ph).

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BLACK WOMAN")

JUNGLE BROTHERS: (Rapping) Black Woman, mother of my earth. Black Woman, you gave me birth. You can truly see what's in me. You can help me be the best that I can be. You feed my fire when I'm on the wire, keeping me calm when it's getting higher, sweet like sugar and hot like wine, always keeping you on my mind. You're giving my life a new light to reach for, giving me so much, how could I ask for more? Keeping us tight when we're getting loose, the darker the berry, the sweeter the juice. Black woman.

BARTOS: That's the Jungle Brothers' "Black Woman" from their sophomore⁴⁸ album.

KRAVITZ: That is so funky with that clavinet (imitating clavinet).

BARTOS: I believe that's a Commodores sample.

KRAVITZ: I mean, that's beautiful. I haven't heard that track in forever.

GARCIA: So you're up on the Jungle Brothers?

KRAVITZ: Oh, yeah. But I haven't heard that track forever. My God, that's so good.

BARTOS: That's a phenomenal album.

KRAVITZ: It's so good.

BARTOS: "Done By The Forces Of Nature."

KRAVITZ: But you know what's amazing? It sounds like that could have been made today.

GARCIA: Oh, for sure.

KRAVITZ: You know what I mean?

GARCIA: When music is that good, it's timeless.

KRAVITZ: It sounds like right now, you know?

BARTOS: I mean, I wish artists were doing stuff like that.

KRAVITZ: What happened to Jungle Brothers?

BARTOS: They do festivals in the summer quite a bit. I actually did an event with them in Liverpool last summer. I came out with a book on - that celebrated⁵⁰ New York City '90s club flyer artwork from...

GARCIA: Right.

BARTOS: ...The '80s and '90s. And I curated an event, and they, along with Slick Rick...

KRAVITZ: Wow, Slick Rick.

BARTOS: ...Headed the bill. And they give a great show. And I think, you know, some of their post-"Done By The Forces Of Nature" records didn't really live up to the level that they hit in the first two albums. But they still have this, you know, phenomenal body of work, which has, you know, endeared them to fans of all ages, you know, up into the present.

KRAVITZ: What made you pick that?

GARCIA: Well, I was curious about, you know, your song, (singing) black girl.

KRAVITZ: "Black Girl."

GARCIA: Yeah - and if you were familiar with this song before you recorded that.

KRAVITZ: No. No. No. But, you know, you always got to pay tribute to the black woman, man. It's powerful. Black women have been the rock for so long in our lives. And they're queens, man, and they're powerful. And so, you know, I was raised by a group of amazing black women. That was also the beauty of back in the day, like, in Brooklyn. Like, if my grandmother was at work or wasn't around, you had Ms. So-and-so and Ms. So-and-so and Ms. So-and-so. And Ms. So-and-so would tear your ass up...

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: ...And take you back home to your grandmother and explain what happened with - like, there was - you know, people had jurisdiction⁵¹, like, you know? The neighborhood raised everybody, you know? It wasn't just your mom or your grandmother or your - the whole block was watching out.

GARCIA: I'm going to play another song for you.

KRAVITZ: OK.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MY DING-A-LING")

CHUCK BERRY: Everybody sings this one. I want to hear everybody join in.

(Singing) When I was a little bitty boy, my grandmother bought me a cute little toy - silver bells hanging on a string. She said it was my ding-a-ling-a-ling. Oh, my ding-a-ling - everybody sing it. I want you to play with my ding-a-ling-a-ling. Oh, my ding-a-ling...

KRAVITZ: Great.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MY DING-A-LING")

BERRY: (Singing) I want to play with my...

KRAVITZ: I haven't heard that in forever either.

BARTOS: (Laughter).

GARCIA: My - that's Chuck Berry.

KRAVITZ: Of course.

GARCIA: "My Ding-A-Ling."

KRAVITZ: He got away with talking so much madness but hiding it in these lyrics, you know?

GARCIA: Right, which was genius.

KRAVITZ: Yeah. At that time...

BARTOS: You had to.

KRAVITZ: ...You know?

GARCIA: And I felt like Chuck - you know, it's an interesting phenomena⁴⁹ with our deeper predecessors⁵², right? So, like, you know, earlier, you were talking about Miles. And you didn't even have to say Davis.

KRAVITZ: Right.

GARCIA: It's, like, it was understood who we were talking about it. But as we move forward, I feel like there are certain artists - you know, like, you can't say Chuck. You might mean Chuck D.

KRAVITZ: That's true.

GARCIA: It could be Chuck Brown from The Soul Searchers.

KRAVITZ: That's true.

GARCIA: Chuck Berry is - you know, he's a giant. He's a giant in rock 'n' roll. And I don't know that that every 20-, 25- or 30-year-old has name recognition like that with him.

KRAVITZ: Really.

GARCIA: I'm wondering if he was an influence to you.

KRAVITZ: Absolutely. I mean, Chuck Berry, man - that's rock 'n' roll. Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bo Diddley - all these guys - Fats Domino - I mean, we - I wouldn't be sitting here. I wouldn't be sitting here. These are the architects. But Chuck Berry - enormous, enormous.

GARCIA: (Laughter) There's another reason why.

KRAVITZ: There's another reason why?

GARCIA: There's another...

BARTOS: (Laughter).

KRAVITZ: Go ahead.

BARTOS: A couple years ago, man, you know, you did a live concert.

KRAVITZ: Oh, see, man. I didn't even - see. Y'all just...

(LAUGHTER)

GARCIA: And, you know, the...

KRAVITZ: That's funny. OK.

GARCIA: Your private part...

KRAVITZ: You got me.

GARCIA: ...Was exposed onstage.

KRAVITZ: "My Ding-A-Ling," yeah.

GARCIA: Chuck Berry did it very coded, you know?

KRAVITZ: Yeah - got it.

BARTOS: And you did the remix...

GARCIA: ...To Chuck Berry.

(LAUGHTER)

KRAVITZ: That's funny. That's a good way to end. I mean, there's nowhere else to go after that.

(LAUGHTER)

BARTOS: Lenny - Lenny Kravitz...

KRAVITZ: That was fun, bro.

BARTOS: Yo, thanks for spending some time with us.

KRAVITZ: It's a pleasure, man.

BARTOS: We really appreciate (unintelligible).

GARCIA: Yeah. For real, B - for real - 100 percent, man.

KRAVITZ: Much respect, much respect.

BARTOS: Mad love for everything you've done.

KRAVITZ: Thank you.

BARTOS: You know, my wife is a fan of yours. I got homeboys that are fans of yours. Like...

KRAVITZ: Oh, cool. Thank you, man.

GARCIA: Everybody's going to bug out that Stretch and I were, like, building with you in the way that we did. So thank you for opening up your heart.

KRAVITZ: Thank you. Thank you.

GARCIA: Word.

KRAVITZ: All right.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BARTOS: That's our show. This podcast was produced by Michelle Lanz, edited by Jordana Hochman and N'Jeri Eaton. And our executive producer is Abby O'Neill.

GARCIA: If you like the show, you can hear more at npr.org - and bonus video content on Spotify on Fridays. Thanks to Spotify for their support. Kindly⁵³ go to Apple Podcasts and rate, review and subscribe⁵⁴. That's how we know you're listening.

BARTOS: Or follow us on Instagram, @stretchandbobbito, or on Twitter, @stretchandbob.

GARCIA: Peace.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)