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美国国家公共电台 NPR Chef Massimo Bottura On Challenging Tradition And Combating Hunger

时间:2018-10-15 03:27:29

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Chef Massimo Bottura On Challenging Tradition And Combating Hunger

ADRIAN BARTOS, HOST:

Hey, everybody. Just to let you know, this podcast may contain some adult or possibly offensive language.

ROBERT GARCIA, HOST:

No nudity, though.

BARTOS: (Laughter) Unless you're thinking about naked people.

MASSIMO BOTTURA: It's not easy to break tradition, you know - or, like, evolve tradition in Italy. They want to burn me in the main piazza1 as a witch.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: (Laughter).

(SOUNDBITE OF JAMES BROWN'S "CHASE")

BARTOS: Hey, hey, hey, party people in the place to be. You're checking out WHAT'S GOOD WITH STRETCH & BOBBITO.

GARCIA: (In unison) STRETCH & BOBBITO.

BARTOS: I am Stretch Armstrong.

GARCIA: My name is Bobbito Garcia.

BARTOS: Indeed.

GARCIA: And I'm hungry right now.

BARTOS: Well, you're going to get hungrier...

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: ...Because we don't have food, and today's guest is the world-renowned chef and humanitarian2, Massimo Bottura.

GARCIA: Now, Stretch, I have to admit that I'm not the jealous type.

BARTOS: Peanut butter and jelly?

GARCIA: But (speaking Spanish), you were able to go to his restaurant in Italy, in Modena, and experience the No. 1-rated restaurant, at this point, in the entire world. What was that like?

BARTOS: Yeah, well, of course, I got invited by Massimo. I was deejaying an event for our friend, Giorgio de Mitri (ph). It was a costume party. I'm deejaying in the booth, and I didn't really participate in the full grandeur4 of costume-ology. I was wearing a white suit with a white mask. That's it - because, you know, you're deejaying, right? You're getting hot and whatnot. And Massimo comes into the booth, and he puts his hand out and says, hello, are you Stretch?

GARCIA: Was he dressed as a lasagna? (Laughter).

BARTOS: (Laughter) He was dressed as the crunchy part of the lasagna. I have to admit, like, I had heard of him, but I didn't know what he looked like. And I guessed that it was him for some reason. And when he said, I hope you can come to my restaurant to eat, I was hoping that it was him...

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: ...Because that would mean we were going to go to Osteria Francescana. And the next day, sure enough, I was there.

GARCIA: Sitting at - and this...

BARTOS: At the chef's table.

GARCIA: ...Now, this is a restaurant that has a waiting list of - what? - months, maybe a year, to sit at. And you're just meeting him for the first time and then - like, how serendipitous5.

BARTOS: It was incredible. It surpassed my expectations. Massimo was there for the whole meal. And in between explaining what each dish meant, he was telling just crazy stories about things that happened in New York with other chefs, about nightclubbing back in the day. It was just the most incredible experience, culinarily, that I've ever had. I probably will never experience something like that again, unless I can go to Osteria with you.

GARCIA: And he also has a nonprofit, Food for Soul, which he has been collaborating7 with other chefs and restaurants around the world. Our audience out there, you are in for a treat. Coming up next, Massimo, the grand chef.

(SOUNDBITE OF JAMES BROWN'S "CHASE")

BARTOS: And we are back in the studio with...

GARCIA: (Singing in Italian).

BOTTURA: Oh, God, this is - this is crazy. What's going on here?

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: ...With world-renowned...

GARCIA: (Laughter) He doesn't know what he's in - getting into.

BOTTURA: No, I don't know what...

BARTOS: Can we start this thing?

BOTTURA: Where am I?

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: (Laughter) You did look a little discombobulated when you walked in. What happened?

BOTTURA: This is a zoo.

GARCIA: Did they prep you?

BARTOS: Where you taken...

BOTTURA: No, I don't know anything. You know, I just walk in.

BARTOS: (Laughter).

GARCIA: (Laughter) Well, welcome to our show. This is WHAT'S GOOD WITH STRETCH...

BARTOS: That's right. And the voice you're hearing is none other than world-renowned chef Massimo Bottura. I think at this stage...

BOTTURA: Hi, guys.

BARTOS: ...You're reaching like...

GARCIA: Did he pronounce it - did he pronounce it OK?

BOTTURA: Yeah, perfect. Actually, one of the first one who pronounced Massimo Bottura very well.

GARCIA: Oh, cool.

BARTOS: You're reaching that level of status where, I think, we might even be able to just drop the Botturo. Like, when someone says Massimo, they know who they're talking about.

BOTTURA: Yeah.

BARTOS: Right?

BOTTURA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BARTOS: Yeah, exactly.

BOTTURA: They all call me Massimo.

BARTOS: Yeah. You learned how to cook from your mother, your grandmother and your aunts. Is that correct?

BOTTURA: Yeah. I think my grandmother was extremely important in my life, first of all, because she convinced me to stop playing soccer as a profession, but keep studying. I was 17, and I was pretty good at playing soccer - as all Italians, you know, does. And she said, you know, if you want to play, you can play, but you're going to regret for the rest of your life. So keep studying, keep studying. It's very important.

And she convinved me, and that was a key moment in my life. Or my mom - she transferred the obsession8 about the quality of the ingredients, you know. And my mom was very important in a moment in which I start studying to become a - at law school. And then she saw me - that I wasn't happy at all.

I drop law school, and I - one week later, I was in the kitchen of a small place in the countryside of Modena. And I put all my self, all my strength because I had to show my father that my mom was right and he was wrong, you know. So if I think about my mom and my grandmother, you know, those two moments were, like, the most important moments of my life, you know.

BARTOS: I'm just curious about, you know, the role of women in the traditional Italian home, right? They're the ones in the kitchen, right?

BOTTURA: Yeah. They're - yeah.

BARTOS: Are they territorial9, like men stay out or?

BOTTURA: No, no. It's like - it's been woman territory in which, you know, usually, in the countryside, they were taking care of the old even - the old economy, you know. They didn't lose one piece of bread crumbs10 because they know exactly what to do with everything. My grandmother was saying the 8 of December where we were killing11 the pigs was very special moment for us in a country. She was saying this pig is giving his life and is going to feed the family for all year, so we have to be very respectful. It's a very spiritual action. He's giving his life for us, so we have to use every single bone of the animal.

So that's the point that, for me, was like extremely important that - because I've learned not to waste anything. And around the table in the kitchen, you know, it's the way you put together the family. You know, all my brothers and sisters and aunts and, you know, parents and mother and grandmothers all together. And you play, you fight, you make peace. You dream together. You plan the future. You talk about business or soccer or whatever. But it's always in the kitchen table.

GARCIA: So I'm thinking, you know, World War II, right? Your grandmothers are coming of age in this era. And, you know, what was food like in Italy during these times and post-World War II? I'm imagining the cuisine13 and the food available had to have taken a shift.

BOTTURA: Yeah.

GARCIA: And what memories - not your own, of course. You're not old enough.

BOTTURA: No, no, no, no. It's - I have so many stories that Lidia - Lidia was my first chef in Trattoria del Campazzo. And she's like the woman that really gave me the opportunity to learn in a professional way how to prepare and to be ready for a big night, you know. And Lidia and my grandmother was - they were telling me all these stories about food and tradition that, you know, they disappear. You know, for example, countryside. No, there was nothing because, you know, the Germans and the fascists14, they were like killing everything and steal everything. And that moment then that, you know, you didn't have anything to eat.

And farmers, they were chasing for wild potatoes that, at that time, they were called wild potatoes. And they were boiling them, and they were really bad. Those wild potatoes were truffles. The black truffles - the big black truffles - they were used as a potatoes. And they - I don't want to say they smell, but they taste like earth. But when you didn't have anything to eat and you didn't know what to do with that kind of stuff, you were boiling them and, you know, to survive.

Those kind of things is like unbelievable. Like passatelli, like one of my favorite meal is like bread crumbs with bread like four, five days old. You grate it, and you mix with some Parmigiano-Reggiano crust grated on top of that and one or two eggs - makes a very quick dough15 - some nutmeg and squeezing it into a potato squeezer into a broth12 like chicken broth maybe, and you eat as a noodle.

GARCIA: And this is something that was generated during the 1930s, '40s during wartime?

BOTTURA: Yeah. Italian cuisine comes from the people, you know. The Italians, they were like very poor. And they were like developing this cuisine with nothing. So that's what we are, you know. With a tomato, give me a tomato, a plate of - and, you know, a couple of, you know, one pound of pasta, and we're going to create something amazing and so enjoyable, you know.

GARCIA: Love it.

BARTOS: You hungry?

BOTTURA: I want to know why you asked me that. It's the first time they asked me something like that. But I'm very interested, you know.

GARCIA: My mother, she was raised in Puerto Rico, right? And, you know, there's a dish there called vianda. Basically, they take the yautia, they take the yucca, they take the patata and they mix it all together in like a stew16. And it's really - it's not just about what would go well with each other, but it's also making the best out of what the earth provides. And we generally conceive of Italian cuisine as this, I mean, you know, your restaurant is ranked No. 1 in the world right now, so we think of it in - a very high level and similar way with French cuisine - couldn't have always been like that.

BOTTURA: This kind of mentality17 is exactly the mentality we approach at the Refettorio. We have...

GARCIA: What is the Refettorio?

BOTTURA: Refettorio is like my social project, is like - during the Universal Exposition 2015, the theme was feed the planet. We produce food for 12 billion people. We are 7 billion on earth. One billion people - they don't have anything to eat. And we waste 1.3 billion tons of food. This is unacceptable. So feed the planet means, for me, fight waste and not produce more. All the waste is going to be - is polluting the world. It's the first cause of pollution.

So this is crazy. We produce food. We use energy, water and human resources. And then we polluted the world because we burn it, we don't eat it. We set up the bar very high. We create our own pavilion outside the Universal Exposition. We regenerate18 this amazing 1930 theater, and we created beautiful place that revived the old neighborhood, welcoming people like migrants, refugees, homeless people, people in need, in a most amazing space.

So through beauty, you can rebuild dignity of the people. This, in three years, became a global movement. In 2018, the chef is much more than the sum of his recipes. That means you have a voice. You can use the spotlight19 that is on you as best restaurant in the world and help the other, you know. This is consciousness, you know.

BARTOS: When you talk about food, you often invoke20 the concept of family, sort of really and figuratively. Of course, you have your own family. And then Francescana is a family.

BOTTURA: Absolutely.

BARTOS: Seems like you've done this beautiful thing where you've kind of integrated the two. So if you could just maybe talk about the concept of family and how it relates to food.

BOTTURA: Of course. It's like - I dedicate, really, my life, the obsession of cooking and obsession of quality. And, you know, once you start, you know, you have this kind of mentality, you have to involve your family because otherwise, you're going to lose it. So I start involving Lara, Charlie and Alexa in the - in our everyday life.

GARCIA: Charlie and Alexa are your children?

BOTTURA: Yeah. And...

GARCIA: Our listeners don't know.

BOTTURA: I'm sorry.

(LAUGHTER)

GARCIA: Our listeners are like, who are these three people he's talking about?

BOTTURA: Yeah. It's like my wife and my daughter and my son. Of course, I speak like with my friends, you know, here. And we dedicate our life to the restaurant, to feed the people, to hospitality. And so we need to integrate this. And as Lara said many times, you know - my wife said, I marry Massimo, but I also marry the restaurant because it's like we treat them as a family, you know. We provide them a place to sleep, food, you know, everything, you know.

BOTTURA: I had the privilege of dining at the Osteria with our friend George Dimitri (ph) and his lovely wife.

BOTTURA: And I was not there.

BARTOS: And you were there.

BOTTURA: I was there. I'm always there. I'm always say hi to people, welcome people, you know, as I - always.

GARCIA: There's an intellectual component21 to your food.

BOTTURA: Yes.

GARCIA: And you walked us through everything.

BOTTURA: Yeah.

GARCIA: I never really contemplated22 the amount of thought that went into a dish.

BOTTURA: It's crazy, yeah.

GARCIA: So - and one of the main takeaways for me was that the tradition of not just Italian cooking but the cooking from your area is very strong. But you said it's not holy, right?

BOTTURA: No. No, no. Absolutely. To me, one of the most important thing is like - it's like, look at the past in a very critic way, not in a nostalgic one. Because if you look at the past in a nostalgic manner, you don't change anything. You don't evolve. But in a critic way, you can get the best from the past into the future. When The New York Times gave me the honor to be one of the greats, you know, and I showed a video with Yuri (ph) - an artist - about just the sound of the crunchy part of the lasagna. The crunchy part of the lasagna is the most interesting part of the big pan of the lasagna that the grandmother usually bring out in the middle of the table for Sunday lunch. Me and my brothers, we were fighting over the crunchy part of the lasagna.

So when I am rebuilding, you know, and I'm cooking something like that, you know, I don't care about eating like this big pan of lasagna or serving like an enormous amount of food. I want to serve emotions. And to serve emotion, I have to rebuild the crunchy part of the lasagna and share with everyone who comes to Osteria just that corner - crunchy corner - with the perfect Bolognese sauce and an amazing, you know, bechamel. That's the point.

You know, you don't come to Osteria Francescana, travel 24 hours by plane and to eat good food. Of course it's good food. It's a three Michelin star. But you come to eat the culture expression of the chef. If you ask me, what do you do every day? I answer, I compress into edible6 bites my passion. But sitting on centuries of history, so it's super Italian and - but filtered by a contemporary mind.

BARTOS: I read, though, that the first year, you were feeding friends constantly, right?

BOTTURA: You know, friends because no one was showing up at the restaurant.

BARTOS: So you had to get people - you had to get asses23 in seats.

BOTTURA: Yeah. There was like years by years by years, like, you know, no one was showing up. I had to sell everything, you know. Now, it's very easy to see, oh, my God, so successful - No. 1 restaurant in the world. But for seven years, you know, it was like struggling and struggling because we were cooking exactly same things now. The five different age Parmigiano in five different texture24 and temperature, the ice cream bar, foie gras with balsamic vinegar and, you know, crunchy almond and hazelnuts.

You know, but people didn't want that. They didn't understand. It was too avant-garde for them. And then, you know, when the first stars arrived, when, you know, I receive all the prizes and the things, it became, you know, they became icon25 for the contemporary cuisine. It's not easy to break tradition, you know or like evolve tradition in Italy. They want to burn me in the main piazza as a witch, you know.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: You know, but the key point was the moment in which we were showing all these guys, the locals, that we can cook better than their grandmothers, you know. That was the moment. That was the moment in which we would make pasta better than the grandmothers. They understood that I could paint also in abstract. You know, Picasso was always saying, you know, I was drawing as Raphael since I was 13. And then he took - whole life to paint like a kid, exactly like us, you know.

Like, you couldn't - you have to do step-by-step. You can't pass. You can't (unintelligible) people if they don't understand. You have to show them step-by-step what you can do, and then you take with them - you take, you know, by hand and say, come with me. I'll show you also what we can do.

BARTOS: So we are in New York City, some place that you return to frequently.

BOTTURA: Yeah.

BARTOS: You live in New York in '93, but you already have the restaurant back at home, right?

BOTTURA: Yes. yes.

BARTOS: How does that work? How do you just get up and go?

BOTTURA: I don't know. I don't know. I was - I was ready to leave. And New York was my place. I fell in love since the first time I came in...

GARCIA: Oh, so you came in 1982?

BOTTURA: In '82, yeah.

GARCIA: And what did you experience then?

BARTOS: What a time.

BOTTURA: Yeah, that was - you know, that was very different.

GARCIA: Were you into breaking at all?

BOTTURA: No, we were - we were here with a team of people. We were all young kids learning English. It was insane.

BARTOS: Were you unsupervised for some of that time?

BOTTURA: Yeah.

BARTOS: His face - his eyes.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BARTOS: You look like a devil right now. What's going on?

BOTTURA: Yeah - no, no, no.

BARTOS: What happened?

BOTTURA: No, it's like - we had like - you know, it was amazing.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: It was amazing. I fell in love with New York, you know. And, like, in '93, I left everything to come here. Then I rent a small apartment in the Upper West Side. That day was - I was walking in SoHo - I remember the exact day. It was the 7 of October - of April, 1993. I was walking in this - the area in SoHo between Grand and Mercer, checking, you know, Jeffrey Deitch Gallery...

GARCIA: Nice.

BOTTURA: ...On Grand. And then I see a sign of an important coffee brand - Italian coffee brand. I said, I'm going to have a cappuccino. And I walk in, and I ask for a cappuccino. It took, like, 25 minutes to have a cappuccino. So I said, my God, these guys - they have problems.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: So I said, I'm not doing anything, you know, right now. I will maybe help them. And so I left my number, blah, blah, blah. And I went back home. And I receive a message on the answering machine, saying, can you come tomorrow? And this same day, Lara applied26 for a job in that same place as a bartender. She was acting27 at Wooster Theater on the other side of the street, and she received the same message.

So we start the 9 of April. And in one week, we had the key of the restaurant. I decide the menu. I kept the restaurant open for dinner too - because they were, like, serving just the breakfast, lunch. And became pretty successful. And this was going on until September, end of September. So I went back home because I had to go back home. And I left everything, you know, again.

BARTOS: What were you exposed to in New York City that you carry with you to this day?

BOTTURA: Actually, I met my wife there, you know.

BARTOS: You still carry her, yes (laughter).

GARCIA: (Laughter).

BOTTURA: But no, Lara was extremely, extremely helpful. She really makes visible the invisible for me. There was a before and after New York, you know? So I start really getting deep into art and stealing idea from the artist and putting them in edible ideas, you know? Like, these all new generation of British artists, like Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin, Jake and Dinos Chapman - all these guys, you know? The first one that she introduced me were, like, the wild American - like, beginning of the '80s - like, Robert Longo, Schnabel, you know, Christopher Wool, Peter Halley, Ross Bleckner - you know, all these guys. That was something that really inspired me and evolved my way of thinking and my way of cooking. So when I open Osteria Francescana in '95, I was already on another planet, you know, with my mind.

GARCIA: You mentioned your nonprofit, Food for Soul, earlier. You've collabed with other chefs and restaurants worldwide, and it includes a Bronx native, one of the cofounders of Ghetto28 Gastro, by the name of Jon Gray. And we actually have him on the phone.

BOTTURA: Really?

BARTOS: Live from London.

BOTTURA: Oh, Jon. Where are you?

JON GRAY: I'm a London, man. I'm in the Ends out here.

GARCIA: I'm in London, man.

(LAUGHTER)

GRAY: What's up, baby?

BOTTURA: Ciao, ciao.

GRAY: Ciao, Massimo. Ciao, Bobbito. Ciao, Stretch. What's good?

BARTOS: What up, my man?

GARCIA: You don't sound Italian at all.

(LAUGHTER)

GRAY: That's the north south Bronx accent, you know? The real Little Italy, off the ave, you dig?

GARCIA: (Laughter) Word up.

BARTOS: Hey, Jon. Just to make this dummy-proof for those that don't know, can you briefly29 describe what Ghetto Gastro is?

GRAY: Sure, sure. You know, it's a culinary collective. Me and three of my comrades kind of got together - wanted to express, like, the essence of our childhood, which is like hip-hop, growing up on shows like STRETCH & BOBBITO, you know?

GARCIA: Woo-eee (ph).

GRAY: With those vibes. Like, and distilling30 that feeling into food, and food events, and products around food, and just taking the aesthetic31 of, like, postmodernism, aka hip-hop, and bringing that to the game.

GARCIA: It's so funny because we could - we could extract the words hip-hop and the Bronx out of what you just said, and it completely reflects exactly what Massimo has been sharing with us about his approach towards cooking and cuisine.

BARTOS: True, true.

GRAY: And just for the record, I'm the one - I'm the one member of Ghetto Gastro that's not a chef. They call me the dishwasher.

BARTOS: (Laughter).

GARCIA: Oh, man.

BOTTURA: You are. You are. But you have to be proud of being that. I always say each role is very important. Like, yeah, you have the chef. But if the dishwashers screw up, you know, the whole service goes bad. So it's - the team is the team. Doesn't matter if you are the chef or the dishwasher. And Jon.

GRAY: You already know.

BARTOS: Tell us how Massimo Bottura and Ghetto Gastro link up.

GARCIA: Yeah, because that's two worlds apart.

BARTOS: Can I tell this story, Max (ph)?

BOTTURA: Yeah, yeah, of course.

GRAY: So check it. We - like, four years ago, we in Copenhagen at this, I guess, symposium32 called MAD. And we kind of mob out...

GARCIA: Is that an acronym33 for something?

GRAY: Is it an acronym, Massimo?

GARCIA: Is MAD an acronym for something?

GRAY: I think mad just means food in Danish.

BOTTURA: Yeah.

GARCIA: Oh, okay.

GRAY: So I think it's like...

BARTOS: Yeah (laughter).

GRAY: I think it's like a little double entendre. They try to, you know, get on they Shawn Carter, I guess, with this thing. So we up there at MAD Symposium. And me and the homies, we mobbing through there. And we had on the GG merch. And we at, like, one of the after-parties. And we meet Massimo his wife Lara at our friend Matt Orlando's restaurant Amass34. We had dinner the night before.

And then we went to the party. And we mobbing. I guess Massimo might have had a few drinks. We were overdrinking (ph). And we had the GG shirts on. And Massimo ran down on my partner Les like - yo, where the fuck is my - can I curse on this? Is this like - what's the...

BOTTURA: Yeah, do whatever you want.

BARTOS: Too late now.

(LAUGHTER)

BARTOS: It's already out there.

GRAY: Massimo's like, like, yo, where's my GG shirt? I'm Ghetto Gastro. Where's my shirt? And he put pressure on the homie, and so he had to give him a shirt. And ever since then, I feel like we've been mobbing. You know?

BOTTURA: That's true. That's what happened. And then, you know, we became friends. And you know, they came and visit Mas (ph) and Osteria many times. Actually, they sleep in my house. So...

GRAY: That's...

BOTTURA: That's how we treat people in Modena, you know? And people - Jon, like, is part of the family now.

BARTOS: Beautiful.

GARCIA: So how how does Food for Soul, the nonprofit, and Ghetto Gastro act on a human level to create food for the objective of providing for those who may not have?

GRAY: So I first learned about Food for Soul when I think it was still - it was still a work in progress. And it's when Massimo and Lara had come to New York. They did a book signing at the 92nd Street Y, which ironically is where I used to go to summer camp and after-school when I was living in El Barrio, Spanish Harlem.

So we went there for that. And they kind of gave us, like, the little teaser. Like - yo, we working on something real important. It's going to be good at some point. We want to, like, involve you if it makes sense. And then when they launched in Milan at the expo, I had the privilege of going out there. Then I was able to spend a day kind of observing. It was just really inspiring to kind of see people really treated - people that might have been down on some hard times or going through something at a time, like, being able to be in a space that was beautiful and treated like human beings and served world-class cuisine. And using the waste - that piece also struck a chord.

But also just like the elders from the community come and end the violence here and having a place and something to do - so it's like that multi-generational immersion35 really touched me. And just being from the Bronx, which is like - the people of the community are very food insecure. We don't have a lot of access to good food options. So I was like, yo, when you're thinking about New York, let's think about the Bronx and how we can make it happen. So I think that's what we're still trying to figure out, locking the right partners to get that going in New York at some point.

BARTOS: Well, if you need help...

GARCIA: Yes.

BARTOS: ...Once the Bronx gets going, please...

BOTTURA: Of course. Of course we will.

BARTOS: Lean on us. We'd love to help you.

BOTTURA: We will need all the help from everyone - you know? - because it's extremely important. The more you involve community, the more important we became because it's like - it's all about, you are welcome - come; walk in; be part of our community.

GARCIA: Hey, Jon - appreciate you reaching out, my brother. And I look forward to meeting you and crossing paths at some point, although I...

BOTTURA: Ciao, Jon.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

GRAY: No question - let's build.

BOTTURA: Ciao, Jon.

BARTOS: Later, man.

BOTTURA: Ciao.

GARCIA: Peace.

BOTTURA: Ciao, Jon.

GRAY: All right, ciao. Peace, everybody.

GARCIA: We're going to take a quick break. Massimo, we'll be right back...

BOTTURA: Yep.

GARCIA: ...All Right?

BOTTURA: Yes, of course.

GARCIA: All right.

BOTTURA: Of course.

(SOUNDBITE OF BOBBITO GARCIA'S "ROCK RUBBER 45S")

BARTOS: And we're back with Massimo Bottura.

GARCIA: Word up. And it's time for their Impression Session. It's pretty simple. Massimo, we're going to do something that you love to do, which is listen to music.

BOTTURA: Oh.

GARCIA: We're each going to play you a track. You react, and it's simple as that. All right?

BARTOS: (Laughter).

BOTTURA: I'm here. I'm here. I'm here.

GARCIA: All right. Cool.

BARTOS: Who's going first?

GARCIA: I kind of feel like you always go first. So why don't I go first?

BARTOS: You go first.

GARCIA: Yeah? OK, cool. All right. So we're going to play you a track. Enjoy.

BOTTURA: All right.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CHEESECAKE (FEAT. BILLY KYLE)")

LOUIS ARMSTRONG: My girl loves cheesecake. (Singing) Oh, cheesecake, munching36 on a cheesecake, munching on a cheesecake...

BARTOS: Post-modern music.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CHEESECAKE (FEAT. BILLY KYLE)")

ARMSTRONG: (Singing) Cheesecake. Cheesecake, munching on a cheesecake, munching on a cheesecake. Cheesecake. Cheesecake - gobble, gobble - cheesecake - gobble, gobble - cheesecake. Cheesecake. Cheesecake - gobble, gobble - cheesecake - gobble, gobble - cheesecake.

BOTTURA: This is so good.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CHEESECAKE (FEAT. BILLY KYLE)")

ARMSTRONG: (Singing) Cheesecake. Cheesecake, munching on a cheesecake, munching on a cheesecake. Cheesecake. Oh, cheesecake - munching on a cheesecake, munching on a cheesecake. Cheesecake. Cheesecake - gobble, gobble, cheesecake - gobble, gobble - cheesecake.

GARCIA: So the artist was Louis Armstrong...

BOTTURA: Yeah.

GARCIA: ...As you might imagine. And the title of the track, as you might imagine as well...

(LAUGHTER)

GARCIA: ...Is "Cheesecake."

(LAUGHTER)

GARCIA: So what'd you think of it?

BOTTURA: About cheesecake or about Armstrong...

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: ...Or about this song?

GARCIA: All three.

BOTTURA: Not crazy about New Orleans jazz. Of course, it was, like, beginning. And everything start from there. I don't want to be a music critic, you know? Like - I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: I love it, you know. And about cheesecake - you know, it's not so easy as you think. You know, you need really knowledge to create the perfect cheesecake.

GARCIA: Gobble, gobble.

BOTTURA: And the song - the gobble-gobble, yeah...

(LAUGHTER)

GARCIA: ...It's OK. What are Massimo and his family - his personal family, not your restaurant family - what are your guilty pleasures in terms of food?

BOTTURA: My guilty pleasure is, like, eating late at night, you know? When you finish, sometimes, you know, I have a decompression room. That is my music room. In there, sometimes I could get some chocolate cream and get some toast and, you know, eat...

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: ...Something I usually don't have to do - yeah - if you want to keep, like, you know, perfect fit...

GARCIA: Yeah, yeah.

BOTTURA: ...You know? That is what I like, you know? It's like - oh, pizza, pizza - ooh.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: I love simple pizza, you know? That's very...

BARTOS: (Singing) Gobble, gobble, pizza?

BOTTURA: No - gobble, gobble pizza, you know? Yeah, don't...

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: ...You know, no pineapple, please - no way on pizza.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: Sometimes, you know, I meet people - like, crazy people. You know, there was this professor from Boston University. I don't remember what kind of reader. But he was trying to convince me that pizza was invented in Chicago.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: And I was like, are you sure? You know, are you sure you're real? What the hell are you talking about, you know? And you know, pizza is, like, something that sounds or looks very simple. But to eat the right pizza, it's extremely, extremely difficult.

BARTOS: My song - here we go.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SARDINES37")

JUNK YARD BAND: (Singing) Sardines - hey - and pork and beans. We eat sardines - hey - and pork and beans. We eat sardines - hey - and pork and beans. Every morning, about a quarter to 1 - sardines - the people start having some fun - sardines. Mama, what should do? Sardines. Do the go-go and have some fun, too.

BARTOS: Massimo just whispered, who is this?

(LAUGHTER)

BARTOS: I'll tell you. That is the Junk Yard Band. And the song is called "Sardines." And it was actually - it's a...

BOTTURA: The Junk Yard Band?

BARTOS: The Junk Yard Band. They're a - back then, they were a group of young men, or teenagers, aged38 between, like, 12 and 16.

GARCIA: Really? I didn't know that.

BARTOS: And that's one of the earliest records on Def Jam. It was an anomaly because it was not a hip-hop record. That's a go-go record. I don't know if you are familiar with go-go music. But it's one of the most local genres39 of music in the United States. It's from Washington, D.C. And I guess the easiest way to describe it would be hip-hop but with a live band. But they still - the parties are called go-gos. They still have them to this day. Briefly in the '80s, go-go records were crossing over. Like Trouble Funk, they were sampled a lot in hip-hop.

GARCIA: E.U. had a big hit...

BOTTURA: Wow.

GARCIA: ..."Doin' It In Da Butt3" (ph).

BOTTURA: Wow. That's...

GARCIA: I don't know if you know that song.

BARTOS: "Doin' Da Butt" (ph).

GARCIA: "Doin' Da Butt" - oh, "Doin' Da Butt."

BARTOS: Anyway, I love that record.

GARCIA: (Laughter) Whoops40.

BARTOS: And we both played you songs (laughter) that are about food, which is kind of silly. It just worked out like that. But anyway, I'm talking too much.

BOTTURA: No, no. I love it. I loved your explanation. You know, I love that kind of stuff because I'm not familiar with that. So I was very interesting to understand what are you talking about. I have another thing that - you know, a story about food involving a guy from New York. This guy was Lou Reed. He wasn't crazy about food. An artist, Timothy Greenfield-Sanders, made a reservation for him and his band because they were playing Modena. I was like wow, Lou Reed is coming. Wow.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: You know? And I was so excited. And at the end of the meal, he said, you have a table for tomorrow for lunch? Of course. So he came back, and I set a new tasting menu, you know, for him. And he said, OK. I have to go. But I'm coming back tonight, if you have a table, of course. I said, yes. I'm going to have a table for you. But you're going to sign all my records. He said, of course I'll do. For you, I'll do it. He didn't realize that I had, like, 75 vinyl...

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: ...you know, and all these things. And he did it. He did it. And he said...

GARCIA: You brought all 75 of Lou Reed's albums.

BOTTURA: All...

BARTOS: Of course he did.

BOTTURA: ...The albums. And I have all signed by him...

GARCIA: Yeah.

BOTTURA: ...From The Velvet41 to his albums...

GARCIA: Amazing.

BOTTURA: ...And all the booklets. You know, in that moment, I was very struggling because people didn't understand what I was doing because it's much more easy to stay nostalgia42 and keep going like that and not asking yourself questions and doubt, you know.

GARCIA: Well, the world is grateful for the risks that you have taken.

BARTOS: Thank you.

GARCIA: Ci vediamo.

BOTTURA: Thank you.

BARTOS: Thank you so much.

BOTTURA: Ci vediamo next time or in Modena.

BARTOS: Yes.

GARCIA: Grazie, grazie.

BOTTURA: Grazie a tutti. Grazie a tutti, ragazzi.

(LAUGHTER)

BOTTURA: We love music and food.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BARTOS: That is our show. This podcast was produced by Michelle Lanz, edited by Jordana Hochman and N'Jeri Eaton. And our executive producer is Abby O'Neill. Music by composer Eli Escobar and our own (imitating Italian accent) Robertino Garcia.

GARCIA: (Laughter).

If you liked the show, you can find more at npr.org or wherever you get your podcasts, including bonus video content on Spotify on Fridays. Thanks to Spotify for their support.

While you're at it, please go to Apple Podcasts and rate, review and subscribe43. And that's how we know you are listening.

BARTOS: You can follow us on Twitter @stretchandbob or Instagram @stretchandbobbito.

GARCIA: Word up.

BARTOS: Peace.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)


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点击收听单词发音收听单词发音  

1 piazza UNVx1     
n.广场;走廊
参考例句:
  • Siena's main piazza was one of the sights of Italy.锡耶纳的主要广场是意大利的名胜之一。
  • They walked out of the cafeteria,and across the piazzadj.他们走出自助餐厅,穿过广场。
2 humanitarian kcoxQ     
n.人道主义者,博爱者,基督凡人论者
参考例句:
  • She has many humanitarian interests and contributes a lot to them.她拥有很多慈善事业,并作了很大的贡献。
  • The British government has now suspended humanitarian aid to the area.英国政府现已暂停对这一地区的人道主义援助。
3 butt uSjyM     
n.笑柄;烟蒂;枪托;臀部;v.用头撞或顶
参考例句:
  • The water butt catches the overflow from this pipe.大水桶盛接管子里流出的东西。
  • He was the butt of their jokes.他是他们的笑柄。
4 grandeur hejz9     
n.伟大,崇高,宏伟,庄严,豪华
参考例句:
  • The grandeur of the Great Wall is unmatched.长城的壮观是独一无二的。
  • These ruins sufficiently attest the former grandeur of the place.这些遗迹充分证明此处昔日的宏伟。
5 serendipitous cf73abfb75b644a95fbb19f85e4b95a9     
adj.偶然发现的
参考例句:
  • There was a serendipitous second advantage working with a library of equations. 利用方程库有个意外收获的附带好处。 来自互联网
  • Strategic networking prepares us for serendipitous moments. 战略性人际交往让我们为不时之需做好准备。 来自互联网
6 edible Uqdxx     
n.食品,食物;adj.可食用的
参考例句:
  • Edible wild herbs kept us from dying of starvation.我们靠着野菜才没被饿死。
  • This kind of mushroom is edible,but that kind is not.这种蘑菇吃得,那种吃不得。
7 collaborating bd93aed5558c4b146fa553d822f7c432     
合作( collaborate的现在分词 ); 勾结叛国
参考例句:
  • Joe is collaborating on the work with a friend. 乔正与一位朋友合作做那件工作。
  • He was not only learning from but also collaborating with Joseph Thomson. 他不仅是在跟约瑟福?汤姆逊学习,而且也是在和他合作。
8 obsession eIdxt     
n.困扰,无法摆脱的思想(或情感)
参考例句:
  • I was suffering from obsession that my career would be ended.那时的我陷入了我的事业有可能就此终止的困扰当中。
  • She would try to forget her obsession with Christopher.她会努力忘记对克里斯托弗的迷恋。
9 territorial LImz4     
adj.领土的,领地的
参考例句:
  • The country is fighting to preserve its territorial integrity.该国在为保持领土的完整而进行斗争。
  • They were not allowed to fish in our territorial waters.不允许他们在我国领海捕鱼。
10 crumbs crumbs     
int. (表示惊讶)哎呀 n. 碎屑 名词crumb的复数形式
参考例句:
  • She stood up and brushed the crumbs from her sweater. 她站起身掸掉了毛衣上的面包屑。
  • Oh crumbs! Is that the time? 啊,天哪!都这会儿啦?
11 killing kpBziQ     
n.巨额利润;突然赚大钱,发大财
参考例句:
  • Investors are set to make a killing from the sell-off.投资者准备清仓以便大赚一笔。
  • Last week my brother made a killing on Wall Street.上个周我兄弟在华尔街赚了一大笔。
12 broth acsyx     
n.原(汁)汤(鱼汤、肉汤、菜汤等)
参考例句:
  • Every cook praises his own broth.厨子总是称赞自己做的汤。
  • Just a bit of a mouse's dropping will spoil a whole saucepan of broth.一粒老鼠屎败坏一锅汤。
13 cuisine Yn1yX     
n.烹调,烹饪法
参考例句:
  • This book is the definitive guide to world cuisine.这本书是世界美食的权威指南。
  • This restaurant is renowned for its cuisine.这家餐馆以其精美的饭菜而闻名。
14 fascists 5fa17f70bcb9821fe1e8183a1b2f4e45     
n.法西斯主义的支持者( fascist的名词复数 )
参考例句:
  • The old man was seized with burning hatred for the fascists. 老人对法西斯主义者充满了仇恨。 来自《简明英汉词典》
  • Zoya heroically bore the torture that the Fascists inflicted upon her. 卓娅英勇地承受法西斯匪徒加在她身上的酷刑。 来自《简明英汉词典》
15 dough hkbzg     
n.生面团;钱,现款
参考例句:
  • She formed the dough into squares.她把生面团捏成四方块。
  • The baker is kneading dough.那位面包师在揉面。
16 stew 0GTz5     
n.炖汤,焖,烦恼;v.炖汤,焖,忧虑
参考例句:
  • The stew must be boiled up before serving.炖肉必须煮熟才能上桌。
  • There's no need to get in a stew.没有必要烦恼。
17 mentality PoIzHP     
n.心理,思想,脑力
参考例句:
  • He has many years'experience of the criminal mentality.他研究犯罪心理有多年经验。
  • Running a business requires a very different mentality from being a salaried employee.经营企业所要求具备的心态和上班族的心态截然不同。
18 regenerate EU2xV     
vt.使恢复,使新生;vi.恢复,再生;adj.恢复的
参考例句:
  • Their aim is to regenerate British industry.他们的目的是复兴英国的工业。
  • Although it is not easy,you have the power to regenerate your life.尽管这不容易,但你有使生活重获新生的能力。
19 spotlight 6hBzmk     
n.公众注意的中心,聚光灯,探照灯,视听,注意,醒目
参考例句:
  • This week the spotlight is on the world of fashion.本周引人瞩目的是时装界。
  • The spotlight followed her round the stage.聚光灯的光圈随着她在舞台上转。
20 invoke G4sxB     
v.求助于(神、法律);恳求,乞求
参考例句:
  • Let us invoke the blessings of peace.让我们祈求和平之福。
  • I hope I'll never have to invoke this clause and lodge a claim with you.我希望我永远不会使用这个条款向你们索赔。
21 component epSzv     
n.组成部分,成分,元件;adj.组成的,合成的
参考例句:
  • Each component is carefully checked before assembly.每个零件在装配前都经过仔细检查。
  • Blade and handle are the component parts of a knife.刀身和刀柄是一把刀的组成部分。
22 contemplated d22c67116b8d5696b30f6705862b0688     
adj. 预期的 动词contemplate的过去分词形式
参考例句:
  • The doctor contemplated the difficult operation he had to perform. 医生仔细地考虑他所要做的棘手的手术。
  • The government has contemplated reforming the entire tax system. 政府打算改革整个税收体制。
23 asses asses     
n. 驴,愚蠢的人,臀部 adv. (常用作后置)用于贬损或骂人
参考例句:
  • Sometimes I got to kick asses to make this place run right. 有时我为了把这个地方搞得像个样子,也不得不踢踢别人的屁股。 来自教父部分
  • Those were wild asses maybe, or zebras flying around in herds. 那些也许是野驴或斑马在成群地奔跑。
24 texture kpmwQ     
n.(织物)质地;(材料)构造;结构;肌理
参考例句:
  • We could feel the smooth texture of silk.我们能感觉出丝绸的光滑质地。
  • Her skin has a fine texture.她的皮肤细腻。
25 icon JbxxB     
n.偶像,崇拜的对象,画像
参考例句:
  • They found an icon in the monastery.他们在修道院中发现了一个圣像。
  • Click on this icon to align or justify text.点击这个图标使文本排齐。
26 applied Tz2zXA     
adj.应用的;v.应用,适用
参考例句:
  • She plans to take a course in applied linguistics.她打算学习应用语言学课程。
  • This cream is best applied to the face at night.这种乳霜最好晚上擦脸用。
27 acting czRzoc     
n.演戏,行为,假装;adj.代理的,临时的,演出用的
参考例句:
  • Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她,她只是假装的。
  • During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代,她的表演生涯黯然失色。
28 ghetto nzGyV     
n.少数民族聚居区,贫民区
参考例句:
  • Racism and crime still flourish in the ghetto.城市贫民区的种族主义和犯罪仍然十分猖獗。
  • I saw that achievement as a possible pattern for the entire ghetto.我把获得的成就看作整个黑人区可以仿效的榜样。
29 briefly 9Styo     
adv.简单地,简短地
参考例句:
  • I want to touch briefly on another aspect of the problem.我想简单地谈一下这个问题的另一方面。
  • He was kidnapped and briefly detained by a terrorist group.他被一个恐怖组织绑架并短暂拘禁。
30 distilling f3783a7378d04a2dd506fe5837220cb7     
n.蒸馏(作用)v.蒸馏( distil的过去式和过去分词 )( distilled的过去分词 );从…提取精华
参考例句:
  • Water can be made pure by distilling it. 水经蒸馏可变得纯净。 来自《简明英汉词典》
  • More ammonium sulphate solution is being recovered in the process of distilling oil shale. 在提炼油页岩的过程中回收的硫酸铵液比过去多了。 来自《简明英汉词典》
31 aesthetic px8zm     
adj.美学的,审美的,有美感
参考例句:
  • My aesthetic standards are quite different from his.我的审美标准与他的大不相同。
  • The professor advanced a new aesthetic theory.那位教授提出了新的美学理论。
32 symposium 8r6wZ     
n.讨论会,专题报告会;专题论文集
参考例句:
  • What have you learned from the symposium?你参加了这次科学讨论会有什么体会?
  • The specialists and scholars present at the symposium come from all corners of the country.出席研讨会的专家学者们来自全国各地。
33 acronym Ny8zN     
n.首字母简略词,简称
参考例句:
  • That's a mouthful of an acronym for a very simple technology.对于一项非常简单的技术来说,这是一个很绕口的缩写词。
  • TSDF is an acronym for Treatment, Storage and Disposal Facilities.TSDF是处理,储存和处置设施的一个缩写。
34 amass tL5ya     
vt.积累,积聚
参考例句:
  • How had he amassed his fortune?他是如何积累财富的呢?
  • The capitalists amass great wealth by exploiting workers.资本家剥削工人而积累了巨额财富。
35 immersion baIxf     
n.沉浸;专心
参考例句:
  • The dirt on the bottom of the bath didn't encourage total immersion.浴缸底有污垢,不宜全身浸泡于其中。
  • The wood had become swollen from prolonged immersion.因长时间浸泡,木头发胀了。
36 munching 3bbbb661207569e6c6cb6a1390d74d06     
v.用力咀嚼(某物),大嚼( munch的现在分词 )
参考例句:
  • He was munching an apple. 他在津津有味地嚼着苹果。 来自《简明英汉词典》
  • Munching the apple as he was, he had an eye for all her movements. 他虽然啃着苹果,但却很留神地监视着她的每一个动作。 来自辞典例句
37 sardines sardines     
n. 沙丁鱼
参考例句:
  • The young of some kinds of herring are canned as sardines. 有些种类的鲱鱼幼鱼可制成罐头。
  • Sardines can be eaten fresh but are often preserved in tins. 沙丁鱼可以吃新鲜的,但常常是装听的。
38 aged 6zWzdI     
adj.年老的,陈年的
参考例句:
  • He had put on weight and aged a little.他胖了,也老点了。
  • He is aged,but his memory is still good.他已年老,然而记忆力还好。
39 genres f90f211700b6afeaafe2f8016ddfad3d     
(文学、艺术等的)类型,体裁,风格( genre的名词复数 )
参考例句:
  • Novel and short story are different genres. 长篇小说和短篇小说是不同的类别。
  • But confusions over the two genres have a long history. 但是类型的混淆,古已有之。 来自汉英文学 - 散文英译
40 whoops JITyt     
int.呼喊声
参考例句:
  • Whoops! Careful, you almost spilt coffee everywhere. 哎哟!小心点,你差点把咖啡洒得到处都是。
  • We were awakened by the whoops of the sick baby. 生病婴儿的喘息声把我们弄醒了。
41 velvet 5gqyO     
n.丝绒,天鹅绒;adj.丝绒制的,柔软的
参考例句:
  • This material feels like velvet.这料子摸起来像丝绒。
  • The new settlers wore the finest silk and velvet clothing.新来的移民穿着最华丽的丝绸和天鹅绒衣服。
42 nostalgia p5Rzb     
n.怀乡病,留恋过去,怀旧
参考例句:
  • He might be influenced by nostalgia for his happy youth.也许是对年轻时幸福时光的怀恋影响了他。
  • I was filled with nostalgia by hearing my favourite old song.我听到这首喜爱的旧歌,心中充满了怀旧之情。
43 subscribe 6Hozu     
vi.(to)订阅,订购;同意;vt.捐助,赞助
参考例句:
  • I heartily subscribe to that sentiment.我十分赞同那个观点。
  • The magazine is trying to get more readers to subscribe.该杂志正大力发展新订户。

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